55 replies to this topic

[Namwons]

Kemosh, on 30 March 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

A tutorial and a Training mode are essential. Something like 'Free Roaming' on the maps, so people can get some knowledge of the layouts and be less useless in the first games: a very good thing would be also a 'Test Mode' for new weapons-mechs BEFORE you buy them (If i remember correctly Planetside had something like that) so people can have an idea of the stuff before spending c-bills or real money (We don't want enraged users storming the forums with: 'OH MY GAWD THIS WEAPON IS HORRIBLE I WANT A REFUND! KILL THE DEVELOPERS!' etc.etc.).
The Academy idea is neat but too RPG-like for most of the playerbase, IMHO.
Honestly, I have no idea how to implement a good 'Skill Test': Quake Live had one based on techniques, but MWO would need a good AI to put up a fight against an human opponent.

Cyrusxs, on 30 March 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Love it. Anyway though I think the training should be optional because being rewarded for doing it just doesn't make sense to me because a tutorial is supposed to teach you not reward you. Also, the questions don't really seem nessesary to me since this is PvP not an RPG but it would be cool to have some RPG elements somewhere in the game if possible.

to "RPG" like lol...every game has level progression in it these days. more or less every game is taking elements from other genres to get as much player base as possible. We will be leveling up our pilot skills. "Role" Warfare month said we will be playing a "role" on the battlefield and "roles" are a pillar of this game...still too much "RPG" for you?

[Kemosh]

Namwons...Role Playing Game in the sense of playing a character in a setting, like a serious tabletop game (you play Clans? well, you follow Zellbringen) NOT in the sense of level progression=RPG. or Role Warfare.
Just a semantical difference.
If you equal Levels progression=RPG, in modern gaming a lot of stuff is more or less a RPG without 'proper' RPG elements (think Dawn of War 2, Wot,Mass Effect ).

[Requital]

I love the idea of advanced training. In about every game I play I skip the tutorial...except for on mechwarrior...I played the tutorial over a dozen times on MW4. I like the "academy" feeling...adds some realism.

I had to vote to start with a mech though...lets face it...if you are a rookie straight from an academy headed for a house army, or a merc signing your first contract, you are given a mech by the person in charge. If you are a lone wolf, you got started as a mech pilot helping other merc and house units because...that's right, you have a mech. I am a fan of realism...and to start the game with a fist full of cash might be easier, but I don't see it as being realistic. A house isn't going to hand a recruit a hand full of cash and tell them to pick out the shiniest machine...you will get what they give you. I don't have a problem with this, because most of us would not be happy with whatever we could afford from the get go anyway, and we would have to pilot something to earn more cash.

[Zakatak]

How about some dual training with instructors in Two-seater Battlemasters?

[Silent]

I like the idea of having a tutorial to get pilots acclimated and then having them go through a gauntlet or scenario that puts their newly learned skills to the test. Then at the end of the training either suggesting a weight class and/or a specific Mech in said class. Just point people in the direction of their playstyle rather than lock them into something they might not enjoy.

Basically what Halfinax suggested.

Edited by Silent, 01 April 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[DrDoktor]

i feel if that you have something like this OP it should only be run ONCE

[Ravana]

I would think that rather then having how many c-bills you start with, that the tutorial could be graded and that the grade would be displayed on your service record. This way people would have a good indication as to what kind of pilot you are. This grade could then be adjusted with your continued performance. Or they could grade you on multiple things like tracking, gunnery, piloting. This way instead of it being a simple prize it instead represents what kind of pilot you are. This would also allow people to know if that Lone Wolf they are pugging with is a decent pilot. This would also encourage people to replay the trials until they are satisfied with their score. It also might lead to merc corps, headhunting decent pilots.

I would think that you would be allowed to repeat it as well to get a better starting score. This will also allow people to become familiar with game and also teach the vetern players about the new things in the game, such as the role warfare and information warfare aspects and being able to replay the trials will allow those who are having trouble with certain concepts to play them again until they understand them, rather then just tossing them out into the game and having them get frustrated and quit because they are getting killed by people who understand mechanics in the game better then them. Like what happens in World of Tanks when people get killed by someone they don't see because they don't understand how the camoflague mechanic works.

[Ryuu Tetsuhara]

Well, I voted for an academy, but definitely without a theory part because it is not really relevant for the players' performances and the gameplay at the beginning (I guess, it could be introduced at a later stage though for claiming specific awards/qualifications within a House or Mercenary unit). Moreover, one could just simply start hoarding player accounts just to pass this part and qualify in the best manner possible, since the questions asked will be repeated after a short while and in my opinion it is much too cumbersome for the developers to start compiling a huge amount of questions (MWO is not really intended as a trivia game, is it? ).

With regard to the academy training I would make it optional ... grant the new (but experienced) players access to an 'instant mech action' scenario or, alternatively, provide them with the option to pass a stage based mech academy program associated with their House or Merc unit. The academy training should be fairly comprehensive (much more extensive than those of previous MWO games), which will discourage/prevent most newcomers to setup several accounts and attending it numerous times (in order to pass with the best performance possible). The advantage for mech academy cadets would be that 'instant action' players will only be provided with a randomly assigned mech (the new player will only be able to pick the weight class and render MWO more realistic, in line with the canon) and not some extra cash and training XP, which would only be given to academy attendees in addition to the randomly assigned mech. Moreover, 'instant action' players would be limited to a rank of private at first, while cadets will have a higher rank after passing the academy. If someone does not like the mech assigned to her/him it will be tough luck and she/he will have to work and prove in battle to afford a different mech model, it is as simple as that. This way new mech types will not be distributed by preference or skill, but by chance within the respective weight classes and this will also be a motivating factor for some (experienced) players, because they will likely be striving to capture or buy a specific mech model or they will just have to adapt to what has been provided to them from the start and it will also be a good concept as mech diversity will be promoted/controllable in the MWO!!!

The developers could implement slight variations in the training program between the different mech academies for the Houses and Merc units (e.g. different training mech(s) used, different planetary environments, slightly different challenges). For the first academy stage I would suggest a fundamental exercise guided by a NPC mech whose pilot explains the basic mech functions and controls to the academy cadet. The second stage would then test the piloting skills of the cadet, including walking, balancing, running, and jumping the mech, in one or several tracks (similar to an eventing horse parcours). A third level of academy training could be focussed on weapons training for all available weapon ranges and weapon types, with standing and moving targets. Stage four of the training program could then introduce the cadet to battle principles/tactics/manoeuvres (e.g. use of sensors, communications, planning of an ambush), while the fifth and last test of the academy training will be based on the Clan Trial of Position (two cadets (or one cadet and one controllable NPC) against six enemy NPC mechs; or, alternatively and probably better, one cadet against three enemy NPC mechs as this scenario should be easier for the developers to implement in MWO). The advantage of the final Trial of Position test would be, that it can also be used in the future, once the Clans show up and will be integrated in the game, and the player will be faced with a first combat experience and will be given C-bills and XP in addition to the randomly assigned mech as well as a House/Merc unit rank.

So much for my thoughts on the topic of an academy program ...

[Michael Rosario]

I read enough to get the general gist of this thread but not all of it, so if I'm restating ideas, I apologize in advance.

Since I'm to lazy to restate it, I'm just going to quote what I wrote on the Kurita board topic of this kind.

Michael Rosario, on 01 April 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but this idea seems to heavily slant towards penalizing someone for wanting to jump strait into the game.

So you managed to make it through the tutorial... how does that equate to you having a right to get more c-bills/exp/ranking points than someone who already knows how to play the game and gets into it. Unless this "academy" takes ages to finish and the enhancements are a temporary thing to allow those who actually spent the time to catch up to those who jumped strait in.

That being said, here's how I think that a training regimen should work:
Stage 1 - Mech Control Tutorial
A basic overview of how to pilot your mech. Introduces new players to how to move, aim, and shoot. Includes jump jets.
Stage 2 - Weapon Tutorial
A basic overview of how each of the weapons work, and how to manage them. Introduces concepts of ammo, heat, and the use of different types of weapons to get different results.
Stage 3 - Control and Weapons Overview
A sort of "test" where the mechwarrior is sent through an obstacle course and must shoot targets (both stationary and moving), doing so under a certain (albeit easy to achieve) time. Doing so will complete the "mandatory" part of the training. You must complete this to have access to any of the later stages.
Stage 4a - Mech Types Tutorial
A basic overview of the four weight classes of mechs. Gives the players 5 - 10 minutes in a mech of each weight class, allowing them to get a feel for each type of mech and what it does. Doesn't introduce any new concepts.
Stage 4b - Covert Ops. Tutorial
A basic overview on how to stay "under the radar". Introduces concepts of evasive maneuvers, utilizing cover, and electronics warfare.
Stage 4c - Team-based Tactics Turorial
A basic overview on how to work together as a team. Randomly pairs players, each in a different role, into groups of 4 to complete an objective. Introduces concepts of communications, teamwork, and role warfare.
Stage 5 - Officer Training
An advanced look at combat strategies, resource utilization, and mech piloting. This course is only available if you have completed all of the other courses. This course will conclude with a test at the end, which will be a live fire test in a currently-occuring combat mission. If (and only if) you pass (read: gain enough experience in the mission) the test, you gain a small temporary boost to c-bills and personal & faction exp, which would only be enough to allow you to catch up to those who started the game at the same time as you, but jumped into battle and started earning exp right away.

As for how you start the game, I'm going to have to go with c-bills. Personally, though, I think you should start with at least enough to be able to afford an assault and a light mech. That way if you accidentally buy a mech you, for whatever reason, can't use, you'll still have enough to afford another of a different type. And if you want to spend it all on a bunch of light mechs and weapons, well... everyone starts the same, so no one can accuse you of cheating or of the game of being unfair, no matter what you buy.

Of course, that being said, I also support the idea of a "stable" of mechs that your faction/merc outfit has. That way, even if you horribly squander your money and can't afford repairs, or lose your mech in a card game, or even just find you can't pilot what you've got for whatever reason, you still have a choice of things you can pilot. Just remember that you'll be getting the stock version of the mechs, and in my personal opinion, part (or all) of the stable mech repair bills should come out of your paycheck.

[Karl Streiger]

Was surprised about the input you guys delivered...modified the poll. Hope I got most new ideas. If not you may tell me.
The tutorial list of Michael is exactly what i thought about.

[Soviet Alex]

Zakatak, on 31 March 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

How about some dual training with instructors in Two-seater Battlemasters?

Mmmmm, Command Battlemasters. That opens up some interesting possibilities down the line.

I voted for the Tutorial, rather than the Academy because I would be very surprised if there isn't a Tutorial & equally surprised if there is an Academy. It would be nice if you got a few C$, XP or Loyalty Points out of it, but I'm not bothered. I would like it to be repeatable, so I can try out new mechs & configs. If that rules out rewards to prevent grinding, so be it.

As for the posts about starting mech or starting cash, Russ Bullock no less has already made having every mech available to every starting player a core game concept. So it looks like we'll be starting with either a pot of C$ (enough to buy an Atlas-7D), or just pick any mech we want. Since I've also read a dev post about non-faction mechs costing extra, I'd tend to expect the pot of C$.

Since this is a server-based browser game rather than a DVD you install on your PC, I'm wondering how much ability to host non-essential activity the game will have. And having your Academy score on your publicly-visible record wouldn't tell anyone how good a pilot you are. It would only tell them how good a pilot you were on Day 1.

[Ryuu Tetsuhara]

Karl Streiger, on 01 April 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

Was surprised about the input you guys delivered...modified the poll. Hope I got most new ideas. If not you may tell me.
The tutorial list of Michael is exactly what i thought about.

Thanks for updating the poll following the recent input/comments, I think it would be great to have a mech academy for every faction and I set up a thread for a House Kurita specific mech academy (methinks, if the developers like the idea, it would be great if there can also be other mech academy threads for any of the other factions):

http://mwomercs.com/...back-requested/

Some details discussed therein may also be interesting for the readers of this original thread.

[Zhanna Kerensky]

Nice thread and idea, I wonder how a mechwarrior academy could be arranged for quite different Mercenary organizations though as this could be regarded as a rather loosely organized faction?

[Karl Streiger]

Ryuu Tetsuhara, on 02 April 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Thanks for updating the poll following the recent input/comments, I think it would be great to have a mech academy for every faction and I set up a thread for a House Kurita specific mech academy (methinks, if the developers like the idea, it would be great if there can also be other mech academy threads for any of the other factions):

I like your topic, but one thing makes me wonder. Should the Academy/Tutorial differ from House to House? For example Kurita units are better trained on Jenner, Panther and the usage of PPCs
Should the choice of a specifc academy really influence your passiv character skills, like it is in MW3-RPG or ToW-RPG?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 02 April 2012 - 10:30 PM.

[Ryuu Tetsuhara]

Cheers, I think it would be very interesting if there are slight differences in the mech academy training between the Houses and the Mercenary conglomerate.

This would add somehow different player identities and game paths/experiences to MWO and, thereby, improve the long-term motivation for playing MWO with people trying different factions for that reason and not just based on celebrities known from BattleTech canon or the looks of the different faction insignia but rather canon-based heritage/culture/mentality. As you mentioned some types of mechs such as the Jenner, Panther, and Dragon are more common in House Kurita than in others and part of the Draconis Combine identity, similar to the code of Bushido and other traditions that influence Kurita battle strategies and views. This can also be adopted with regard to the heritage/culture/mentality of other factions, not only reflected by the most popular mech designs within a House but also the traditionial combat style and tactics.

I am not sure though, how much game depth the developers are interested to bring to the table and whether or not the entire community will embrace it or at least a fraction of the community (the rest may not have to deal with it and the developers could create ways around it for those who are just interested in the shoot'em up perspective of MWO.

[Orzorn]

Training should be similar to Freespace 2.

You should have several low-end, low-skill courses that teach you the basics of piloting. Then you should have more advanced courses that teach you the differences of mech classes and sizes. Then, even still, you should have more advanced courses that teach you specific role skills like commanding, spotting, sniping, and brawling.

You should also be given questionnaires between training missions that ask you questions over what you just learned. If you answer incorrectly, you will be recommended (but not required) to repeat the previous training course. You are also given a final personal examination that asks you opinions on various situations (similar to Morrowind's character creation option, if anyone has played that). Based upon those answers, you will be recommended a mech to start out with. A person who tends to answer questions with agressive responses might be recommended a Dragon or Centurion, while a person who answers questions with stealth or avoidance would be recommended a lighter mech like a Commando.

In addition, the academy should contain explanations on different factions and their history (similar to the Freespace 2 video), to give new players a good idea of what they're getting themselves in to.

The academy should also have obstacle and marksmanship courses. They could perhaps even have more advanced skill tests that involve special situations, such as having to manage heat on a naturally hot planet with a naturally hot running energy-based mech.

Courses like these could not only teach new players how to play, but keep more advanced players coming back to train and sharpen theirs kills. Now, someone might ask "Why would a skilled player train instead of just play the game?" Well, sometimes you have a special mech that you want to try out, or you're just waiting for your allies to get on the game so you can join up. You might be waiting for a few minutes between games, you might just not feel like playing a real game that day, or you might have something to do in real life but have a few minutes of downtime. Training lets you work on your skills without tying you up in an actual game.

[Karl Streiger]

Have to reanimate this topic... while using a axe - the most versatile tool in human history - to dig out a square meter of reed roots i had a lot of time to think about it.
The choice of a academy would increase the "roll-play" part of mwo.
Every academy has its own curriculum. For example the Nagelring on Tharkad should create leader.
While the Buena War Colleague is known for its hard test resulting in some of the best warriors the IS could create

Don't have so many background information about other great houses but the choice of a academy may result in a bonus on a skill as Commander, Attacker/Defender, or Scout...which bonus should be available has still to be evaluated.
For example:
Nagelring = +1 for a single skill on Commander Tree
Saglamore = +1 for a single skill on Attacker/Defender Tree for a heavy or assault chassis
Buena = +1 for a single skill without restrictions
...
What do you think about this idea?

[Spartan Leonidus]

I like much of what I have read in various combinations...

I like a tutorial AND academy (both skippable and announced so)
I like both giving bonus (stat annotation/more c-bills) for those who complete them (and announced so).
Make the tutorial missions all ONE TIME PAYOUT upon completion but repeatable forever (and announced so).

The announcements to me make the player hot to get into it know they can skip much of what is offered but they know they can come back if they choose to.

Skipping Everything to get in the Game Person:
I think the tutorial,if skipped could find the pilot in a light, fitted mech (same configuration as everyone else's mech-think IROC) in a sandbox FFA map to "prove" basic offensive capabilities by participating in damaging or killing another in the Basic Mech Operator License Skirmish Test. This should be setup to load quick and if a person is reasonable about approaching and attacking the nearest contact they can be past this in less than a minute and on to the game. This could be the only required item and be made to happen quick for those who know how to play and "easy enough" for those that are just learning movement and turret movement independently.

You are about to be entrusted with a large clan assets and as such must prove basic proficiency. This is a Live Fire Exercise with everyone in the same Mech, same gear and ammo.

GO PROVE you are not a clown joking his way passed the academy and Clan leadership. Damage or Destroy any Mech Pilot in the time remaining. (start 180 second timer). Drop Toon in light mech on tight brawl map with others in range and in full FFA mode.

Academy for those wanting to Know
Academy could be like others mention, Michael Rosario in particular. The fleshing out part of the academy for those who want to learn the new game's mechanic and eek out every tactical advantage of this iteration regardless of the starting level knowledge of BT. Intersperse this optional yet story/lore enhancing portion of the game for those who want to explore in more detail and learn at the Academy!

[ManDaisy]

Unskippable tutorial, screen out all the freshly banned botters and griefers thru pure annoyance.

[Dirge Rojyo]

A mech achadmy is just what's needed, and forthe love of god make it non-skipable. That way everyonethat starts can get the basics of the game down. granted all the old school vets like me will groan and moan about it, but itnhe endthe game will be richer when everyone that may not be from the mech warrior fandom that comes in will have some sorta idea of what the hell they need to do.