20 replies to this topic

[Paladin Brewer]

Looking over the recent blog post it sounds like a double legged mech = dead, much like in the mechwarrior series. I'm not really sure why this is. Most mechs have their engine, weapons, life support etc in the torsos, legs are only used for mobility. In MPBT: Solaris, a double legged mech was on it's back, but was still able to fire off its arms in limited direction. I find that would be preferable, but I'm unsure to what the Battletech Canon actually says to this.

[Ian MacLeary]

BattleTech canon: a mission kill is recorded when a 'mech cannot do 5 points of weapon damage in a round (due to loss of weapons); it has lost 3 limbs (so both arms + 1 leg or both legs and 1 arm); or it has lost a critical system (engine, gyro).

A leg-less 'mech can still prop and fire torso-mounted (and the opposite arm) weapons; it can also crab around to change its firing arcs (1 hexside per turn).

I actually pulled off a DFA attack with a one-legged Wasp once, it was pretty epic.

[SnowDragon]

I'm disaapointed in PGI for going the two legs blown off = Death. I hope they change it.

[Alistair Steiner]

As long as they don't Stackpole when both legs are blown off. But having been legged in MWLL and still being able to turn my torso and fire, I'll throw my vote in with you guys. Not something that'll keep me from playing the game, but I'd like to see a change if possible.

[Cody Machado]

I wont to blow some ones leg off and watch them fall over. Key word leg, not legs. It's hard for a mech to hop on one leg! Even when bits are still on the mech.

[That Guy]

a double legging=death points to something good though! a single legging will not be a kill!

but seriouly, having no legs should not be instantly leathal. it may not be smart, but you can stick around taking pot shots, just waiting for some one to come by and finish the job. another reason to have an "eject!" button

[Cody Machado]

That Guy, on 15 March 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

a double legging=death points to something good though! a single legging will not be a kill!

but seriouly, having no legs should not be instantly leathal. it may not be smart, but you can stick around taking pot shots, just waiting for some one to come by and finish the job. another reason to have an "eject!" button

Eject while laying down? Wouldn't that be a bad idea? You could do what one of my friends did and eject in to the side of a cliff. He survived tho.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I agree that the mech should be down but not out. I would be happy for it to be counted as a "mission kill" for the purposes of determining when the match ended. Lets face it a Panther with it's legs gone but the rest intact is still capable of hurting any mech that strays in range.
Maybe turn this into a poll?

[S3dition]

It's down to programming time and the amount of resources needed for a completely unnecessary mechanic. Not to mention animations and finding a way for half the mechs in the game to be useful when they realistically couldn't even stand up if they fell over. It's one thing to just "say" they do in the board game. It's much different story when you actually have to animate it.

[Siilk]

I'm with you guys, crippled mech should be able to fight back.

S3dition, on 15 March 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

It's down to programming time and the amount of resources needed for a completely unnecessary mechanic. Not to mention animations and finding a way for half the mechs in the game to be useful when they realistically couldn't even stand up if they fell over. It's one thing to just "say" they do in the board game. It's much different story when you actually have to animate it.

Naturally. I, for one, perfectly understand how harder it would be to implement all that. But just think about how awesome it would be. It would really make MWO to stand out as an in-depth BT mech sim. So I really hope MWO dev team would ultimately find the resources to fully implement this. Not necessary at the initial release, but at some point in the future.

[Orzorn]

Yes, there are several things that are too difficult for them to depict. Just as with melee, it would be difficult to depict an animation where the mech props itself up in a non-awkward fashion.

I would love to see it, but I can understand why we won't see it.

[Mechteric]

Having no legs basically means you're out of commision. So you're not technically dead, but you can't do anything further in the fight. It counts as your mech being destroyed more or less, though hopefully the repair bill will be less than if you were destroyed through your center torso.

[Paladin Brewer]

Quote

If the game was 100% by BT canon then it would have been called BattleTech Online.

Mechwarrior IS Battletech, or more specifically, an occupation within the Battletech Universe. We enjoy Mechwarrior because it does follow the Battletech canon. Now I realize changes need to be made here and there. What works in books and dice rolling does not always work in a simulation. But the more changes that are made, the further away we get from the Canon, and then it's no longer Mechwarrior, it's something, well, less interesting. People are here because they want Battletech, that's what this community is. Not to make a big fuss I just think a double legged mech should still be in the fight. Few things are more satisfying than winning a match while taking a nap

[Lycan]

Not sure I like this concept but will give it a shot and see how it plays when the game goes live. Since I can't make an informed opinion on just "the blog says so" and need to either see it in action OR be the recipient of said legging.

@Ian McLeary

Are you sure about the three limb thing? It's been a long, long time since i played but I don't recall the three limb rule or the 5 points of damage rule.

[Strum Wealh]

I recall the three-limb thing being in CBT Master Rules (I don't have my copy with me at the moment, so I don't have the page number).

Total Warfare states on page 128 that a BattleMech is destroyed "if its MechWarrior dies or the ́Mech suffers three engine hits (remember to count engine slots in the side torso if that torso is destroyed); the destruction of the head, cockpit, or center torso has the same effects and renders a ’Mech destroyed."

Also, "leg destruction" is discussed on page 122 of Total Warfare, but it only discusses the case of having lost one leg (and of a quad losing up to three of its four legs); it seems silent on the issue of losing all of a BattleMech's legs...

[IceSerpent]

Ian MacLeary, on 14 March 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

A leg-less 'mech can still prop and fire torso-mounted (and the opposite arm) weapons; it can also crab around to change its firing arcs (1 hexside per turn).

True, but not all mechs are capable of doing that, i.e. Jenner or Catapult with both legs destroyed won't be able to prop or crab around. TT never bothered to have this distinction (afaik) - all mechs could do that, while MW games went the other way and no mechs could do that.
Honestly, either way is fine by me, and I am sure developers have more presing things to do right now than making those prop and crawl animations. Maybe they will add this sort of stuff in the future though - would be a nice touch.

[Paladin Brewer]

It's also not all about weapons fire. What if a company or lance commander gets double legged? He can still use his sensors, map, see the battle call down artillery, etc. But not if the game labels him as dead

[TimberJon]

I would think that unless a 'mechs Coplant system is modular and can bypass missing limbs.. It would bleed out coolant to the point where it can probably only handle heat generated by its reactor alone. While I would really like to be able to crouch or something to still fire at targets (as best as the me h would allow me) I'm not sure if I should be firing. I know we will have a heat gauge but I wonder if we might also have a coolant level gauge. If you take serious damage a % per second leak occurs, and the % increases based on damage to the body or from missing limbs. If you knew your coolant gauge was going down then you would have to hurry and take action against the enemy sooner. I don't remember anything like this from all the novels. Maybe the coolant system always closed itself off to remain working optimally.

[Ian MacLeary]

The coolant system has cutoff valves in case of catastrophic damage to prevent just such a scenario from taking place, as well as multiple loop-backs. Losing cooling effectiveness in combat is simulated in the table-top rules by taking critical hits to the heat sinks which are in excess of those integrated into the engine; total destruction of the location in which said heat sinks are located disables them as well.

@Lycan: Well, the only times I've played recently have been tournament-style, so that may just be a tournament rule. But it's still a pretty valid criterion.

Edited by Ian MacLeary, 17 March 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[TimberJon]

@ Ian. Excellent. Take my legs but leave my guns.