26 replies to this topic

[CoffiNail]

What are your thoughts if the Clans voted to restablish the Star League instead of pushing the Dragoons, or maybe the Dragoons reports suggested the Crusaders that it was a good time to attack while the IS was weak.

Say 3000, instead of the Dragoon Compromise they voted to attack, and after 5 years of Trials, supplies, etc they just pushed. Do you think it would still be 4 original Invading Clans, or would a lot more since they had little knowledge on the IS at the time. How do you think the IS would fare under even just the 4 invading Clans.

Sorry IS but without the Helm memory core, the state the IS was in at that point. They would have been crushed, and no Jaime Wolf to band the Rimward with the Coreward, Fed suns and Lyran Com not allied... ohh it could have been beautiful!

Edited by CoffiNail, 26 January 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

hmmm definitly would have been interesting to say the least ...

[Evinthal]

Oh it would have been beautiful. The Dragoons gave the spheroids 45 years of previews on what was to come in 3050. Given that the succession wars were in full swing I don't know how much resistance there would have been, aside from those meddling ComStar types.

[Threat Doc]

I'm not so sure. I think it would have turned into a "No one gets to beat on my brother except me!" and, despite the technology, I think the Clans still would have been stopped at the Truce Line.

[Thorn Hallis]

They would have made even more impressive gains in the first phases of the invasion, they might even have reached (and conquered) Terra without any real opposition. The battle for Terra could have been interesting.

On the other hand...Yorinaga Kurita and Patrick Kell would have killed them one by one.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Paper towels! I need paper towels!

[Vincent Hall]

I don't know about conquering Terra but they would have likely gotten closer if not to it. Comstar would still have eventually called for the trial and likely won due to the crazy numbers they had.

[CoffiNail]

Vincent Hall, on 26 January 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

I don't know about conquering Terra but they would have likely gotten closer if not to it. Comstar would still have eventually called for the trial and likely won due to the crazy numbers they had.

Depending on the timeframe, Focht would not be part of the ComGuards yet. They may never have had a Envoy or one so calculating and may never have thought of, or learned to play the Clans game themselves. ComGuard still may have helped, but who knows how powerful they were in 30105-3015 time

[Vincent Hall]

CoffiNail, on 26 January 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Depending on the timeframe, Focht would not be part of the ComGuards yet. They may never have had a Envoy or one so calculating and may never have thought of, or learned to play the Clans game themselves. ComGuard still may have helped, but who knows how powerful they were in 30105-3015 time

Yes but if the clans had gotten to terra comstar would have only needed to fight one as the clans were racing to it to see who got there first.
And even without Focht comstar had more than enough to deal with one clan at a time instead of fighting six at once.

[Fiachdubh]

The IS just about halted the Clans. That was with Focht masterminding Tukkayid, huge increases in the number of mechs being manufactured with much improved tech from the Starleague core. Then there were leaders like Victor, Kai, Horito and others that were specially briefed and trained to counter the Clans by Wolf's Dragoons. They had none of that in 3000 - 3015 and that was just to stop four Clans.
Comstar may have stopped the first Clan and maybe even the second if they failed to co-operate but all the others coming behind them to face an ever weakening Comguards and then there were yet more Clans back home just waiting for an excuse to join in.
The Clans would of steamrolled the IS if they had not waited for so long.

[Adridos]

Well, Clanners, hard to say. "IF" is impossible to determine. There are too many possibilities of things that could happen it is impossible to think of it. That is for the real view.

And now for yours. You would go, ComStar would defend itself, so you go around them, crush FedCom and get to LIao, which discovers the core a bit earlier and with FWL production capabilities, kicks you out of IS. See? Endless possibilities.

Edited by Adridos, 26 January 2012 - 01:12 PM.

[John Clavell]

But they made one BIG mistake. They Invaded MY HOME PLANET!

[MilitantMonk]

Interesting thoughts. I still feel the clans would have been halted or gone 'native' at some point during an earlier invasion. A supply line that's months long trying while wage one the largest wars the galaxy has known seems a bit of an operation. Just look at the Reunification war or the Amaris Coup or Operation: Klondike. There were years of mobilization and years of shifting supply lines just to wage them. Seems unlikely to work nearly as well as those campaigns when you lines of communication are much greater and your reserves are much less.

[Fiachdubh]

While I think the Clans would of trounced the IS I agree that it still would of spelt the end of the Clans as they were and they would of ended up in a similar situation society wise that we see in 3085, in the IS at least.
Once they settled in the IS pre invasion Clan society was doomed amongst the invasion Clans and they would of been so powerfull that the events leading up to and during the Wars of Reaving probably would never of happened meaning the homeworlds would not of been cut off allowing those left behind to try to return to the old Clan ways. Or prehaps the Wars of Reaving could of taken place anyway but encompasing much of the IS instead of just the homeworlds.

Just as well they waited until 3049 and then lost on Tukkayid.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 26 January 2012 - 02:22 PM.

[DarkTreader]

Actually, even had ComStar attempted to challenge them in a Trial of Possession... the Clans would've annihilated them. Between 3010-3015, ComStar - for all intents and purposes - only had a defensive military arm. Sure, they knew they had a decent number of standard Mechs, and some adequate pilots to provide backup for the HPGs, but it seems like it wasn't until shortly before the time of the DataCore's discovery that ComStar started actively fielding Mechs in a combat role. Based on how the GDL handled the Mechs they faced from ComStar, these pilots were mostly green, some simulator or minor garrison duty was about the extent of most of their training. It's not like ComStar was cranking out the Genyosha =p

Some assumptions made in this statement, sure, but they're logical ones.

[Semyon Drakon]

I actually wargamed this once in a long series of games with a few friends. Admittedly it was battleforce and TT BT however we very varefully shose our forces based on what each clan or IS would have had. We invaded through the Drac Combine and let's just say even with a very talented IS commander the tech gap was just too wide.

As for Comstar they are good but back then the Comguards were not a patch on the force they would be in 3052, they had good gear but really ordinary skills, mostly being merc units seconded to the guards and new green pilots.

It was almost a walkover.

Semyon

[FireNova]

CoffiNail, on 26 January 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

What are your thoughts if the Clans voted to restablish the Star League instead of pushing the Dragoons, or maybe the Dragoons reports suggested the Crusaders that it was a good time to attack while the IS was weak.

This.

[CoffiNail]

See the Funny thing is ComGuards did not really exsist, as said above in a force setting, they were more there to instill the might of Comstar and protect the HPG facilities. It was Focht himself in 3035ish? Where Focht was head of ROM, and Fed Suns initiated Operation FLUSH to remove ROM agents, Focht just did a war of misinformation, Waverly did not like this method and made him a new position, Precentor Martial and branched the ComGuards in to their own group within Comstar and had ROM separate.

ComGuards had some nice tech, but not the mechs. Assuming of course as we do not know the strength of ROM's military arm in early 3000

[Ralinos]

Even if the Clans took Terra it wouldn't have mattered. The IS would have kept on fighting, all the while Clanner tech would be salvaged/stolen and sent around the Sphere. There's just not enough Clanners and too many worlds for them to control everything.

[CoffiNail]

Ralinos, on 27 January 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Even if the Clans took Terra it wouldn't have mattered. The IS would have kept on fighting, all the while Clanner tech would be salvaged/stolen and sent around the Sphere. There's just not enough Clanners and too many worlds for them to control everything.

See the thing is, when the Clans reach Terra they no longer become individual Clans, they become one Clan with the individual Clans sort of being, military groups instead of separate toumans. The IlClan becomes the supreme Clan, and then the Clans would restablish the Star League. I would see the Steel Viper's view being strengthened then, where they feel the Clans should just retake the previous Terran Hegemony worlds and then try to work with the IS to re-establish the Star League.

Eitherway, the whole force of the Clans would then come to the Sphere with minimal defenses safe guarding the Clans homeworlds... but sorry, the combined might of the Warriors of Kerensky...