18 replies to this topic

[Aegis Kleais]

I would like to request an option where you can change weapons that fire more than 1 piece of ammo at a time to show you a salvo count rather than the individual ammo.

ie, LRM20 might show 240 rounds, but with this mode enough (off by default) it would change that to say "12" (12x20=240).

I've always liked the "Salvo Count" numbers rather than single pieces of ammo (since they are forcibly fired in 2/4/6/10/15/20/30/40 increments)

[Kenyon Burguess]

ditto. the lesser the numbers, the better.

[Aegis Kleais]

Geist Null, on 03 April 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

ditto. the lesser the numbers, the better.

I just don't want to do math to know how many more salvos I have left

Let's see... 200 ..... divided by.... minus the divisible......duuuuuuuh.... *gets cored*

[Halfinax]

Generally in BT/MW the ammo count is shown by shots available not actual rounds. Did I miss something in a previous iteration of MW? I am positive that 1 ton of LRM ammo doesn't consist of 6 missiles, but rather 6 salvos. If the devs had something else in mind I am with you OP.

[CeeKay Boques]

Ok, as a "Digital Hat" I would pay for an analog ammo counter.

Much like seen here between minutes 4 and 4:30. (Awesome by the way)

[Mechteric]

all previous mechwarrior games have shown total ammo (at least from 2 up), not total salvos.


The real title of this thread is "Math is hard!".

[Aegis Kleais]

CapperDeluxe, on 03 April 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

all previous mechwarrior games have shown total ammo (at least from 2 up), not total salvos.


The real title of this thread is "Math is hard!".

As the title of your post is "Sarcasm is creative and always appreciated!"

Actually, the easier you can make a UI to be read quickly and accurately the better it is. It's a legitimate request.

[Agent CraZy DiP]

I agree with both you guys... It would be a great improvement to the UI, but yes... It should be retitled Math Is Hard...

[Halfinax]

CapperDeluxe, on 03 April 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

all previous mechwarrior games have shown total ammo (at least from 2 up), not total salvos.


The real title of this thread is "Math is hard!".

Huh, never noticed that. I don't really see it being an issue either way, but it would be understandable to have it showing salvos rather than total munitions left. although I have to say. dividing by 2,4,5,6,15 or multiples of ten is grade school arithmetic. That's rude of me. I'm sorry.

Edited For rudeness

Edited by Halfinax, 03 April 2012 - 09:50 PM.

[T0RC4ED]

I agree, who cares about how many rounds are left, I want to know how many times I can hit the fire button before im left with only energy weapons.

[Helmer]

I've always liked seeing how many rounds where left myself. I kind of saw it as a ,small, part of getting used to your individual 'mech.
If you're using the same weapon systems over and over, you know exactly how many salvos you have left without really having to do any math in your head. Just glancing at my SRM6 and seeing 36 rounds left, I know I have 6 salvos left. I'd expect a slight learning curve when jumping into a 'mech with weapons I was unfamiliar with.

I'll admit tho, it's complexity for complexity sake. I personally like it, however, I'd agree that it probably makes more sense to list the number of salvos left, or make it an option.




Cheers.

Edited by Helmer, 03 April 2012 - 11:37 PM.

[Infine]

But this arises a question (that was quite poorly handled in MW4).

IIRC, canonically (not MW4-ically, hence the poor handling) a weapon system and it's ammo are 2 separate identities. So, let's say you have 2 LRM10 launchers and an arbitrary amount of LRM10 ammo. Now, in MW4 that would be 2 weapon systems with 2 separate ammo pools. If this game has TT (or MW3 if you want) style of ammo handling (as a separate identity), what happens if the number of remaining salvos becomes odd? How much remaining salvos should we see on the hud next to the individual weapon system?

There's even more to that. I don't quite remember the rules, but it would not be strange if, say, LRM10 and LRM20 could share a same pool of LRM ammo. Then we come to possible non-integer salvo counters.

So. If weapon and ammo are separate, is there even a valid entity such as "shots remaining"?

[Corpsecandle]

Infine, on 03 April 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

But this arises a question (that was quite poorly handled in MW4).

IIRC, canonically (not MW4-ically, hence the poor handling) a weapon system and it's ammo are 2 separate identities. So, let's say you have 2 LRM10 launchers and an arbitrary amount of LRM10 ammo. Now, in MW4 that would be 2 weapon systems with 2 separate ammo pools. If this game has TT (or MW3 if you want) style of ammo handling (as a separate identity), what happens if the number of remaining salvos becomes odd? How much remaining salvos should we see on the hud next to the individual weapon system?

There's even more to that. I don't quite remember the rules, but it would not be strange if, say, LRM10 and LRM20 could share a same pool of LRM ammo. Then we come to possible non-integer salvo counters.

So. If weapon and ammo are separate, is there even a valid entity such as "shots remaining"?

So given a mech with 2 AC10's which each come with 1 ton of ammo...in this instance there would be three identities, the AC5 in Weapon Slot 1, the AC5 in Weapon Slot 2, and a single pool of ammo which both weapons share. For the displays below I'm assuming 240 rds per ton (I don't know canon ammo counts so forgive me if I've gotten the number of rounds per ton wrong) for a total of 480 then we can convert it to Salvos for 96 salvos available to each weapon. In theory you could burn all 96 salvos on a single cannon, or you could split it up by grouping or cycle firing.

This would display as follows:

Start with

WS1 AC5 96slvs
WS2 AC5 96slvs

->Now we fire WS1 for one trigger pull and both counters deplete by 1, as each weapon has access to the same reduced pool of ammo.

WS1 AC5 95slvs
WS2 AC5 95slvs
.

If both weapons fire at the same time (ie group fire), both ammo counters would deplete by 2...


Start with

WS1 AC5 96slvs
WS2 AC5 96slvs


->Fire WS1 and WS2 for one burst

WS1 AC5 94slvs
WS2 AC5 94slvs


The issue you're concerned with is when both weapons attempt to fire via group fire, but there's only enough ammo for one. I think the best way the system could handle it would be to basically roll off between the two weapons and see which one managed to grab the last of the ammo. Of course this introduces issues with accuracy; if a mech has one AC5 in an arm, and the other mounted in a chest slot, the pilot probably wants to know which is going to fire so they can appropriately focus one of your reticles. At that point it becomes a measure of Pilot skill: knowing when to switch between group and single cycle fire in order to maintain accuracy.

So:

WS1 AC5 1slvs

WS2 AC5 1slvs

Pull the trigger on group fire and WS2 manages to grab the ammo before WS1:

WS1 AC5 0slvs (and a dry fires)
WS2 AC5 0slvs (and misses because because the pilot expected the other one to fire and didn't have the reticles lined up properly)


If you a pilot only ever fires the AC's via group fire, they'd have to mentally split the rounds count in their head bringing in that pesky math again.

[Exilyth]

The best would be having a toggle in options to display ammo either as salvoes or rounds left so you can choose whatever you prefer.

[Aegis Kleais]

Exilyth, on 04 April 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

The best would be having a toggle in options to display ammo either as salvoes or rounds left so you can choose whatever you prefer.

Exactly. Best of both worlds, and I would assume very easy to program.

[CeeKay Boques]

With accompanying Betty?

"Salvo" "Single..." I'd press that over and over. "Salvo, Single, Salvo, Single, Salvo, Single"

Oooh that gave me a great, uncanon idea.

I wish, if we chose, we could fire LRM20's one at a time, as in pull the trigger 20 times if you wanted to, for a single missile load.


"Where did you say he was?"

"There...."

Fires single round of LRM20

[canned wolf]

Exilyth, on 04 April 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

The best would be having a toggle in options to display ammo either as salvoes or rounds left so you can choose whatever you prefer.

I would put the switch in the cockpit, especially if you could share ammo sources between weapons as is suggested above.

[Aegis Kleais]

Technoviking, on 04 April 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

With accompanying Betty?

"Salvo" "Single..." I'd press that over and over. "Salvo, Single, Salvo, Single, Salvo, Single"

Oooh that gave me a great, uncanon idea.

I wish, if we chose, we could fire LRM20's one at a time, as in pull the trigger 20 times if you wanted to, for a single missile load.


"Where did you say he was?"

"There...."

Fires single round of LRM20

lol. If you could fire single missiles, and LRM20 would come with 20 separate weapon readiness indicators.

[EDMW CSN]

A toggle but I still prefer all my numbers.