63 replies to this topic

[Rockhound085]

Yea in Illusions of Victory the Piligar did have two gauss rifles and he had a ppc replaced the large laser, that was one of my favorite 100 tonner load outs, I typically had it on a daisy. But I remember in blood of Kerensky Vol 2 that the gauss rifles would draw too much power, but as mentioned that is not believable due to the physics and energy and all the cool stuff that makes us geeks and awesome.

[stabwest]

Cawdor, on 01 April 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Also: Gaus Rifles aren't introduced to the IS until 3050 and even then only on a hand full of mechs provided or refitted by the Dragoons.

wrong, http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle says:

"The Gauss Rifle was found on a number of heavier Star League Defense Force 'Mechs, but fell out of use in the Inner Sphere during the technological decline of the Succession Wars. It was revived following the discovery of the Helm Memory Core."

The Helm Memory Core was recovered in 3028 and Gauss Rifles were being produced in the IS as early as 3040.

[Ranger207]

Nightwish, on 01 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

I just thought of another question. Would Gauss Rifles have similar HUD scrambling effects to PPC's? I mean if you fire a large ferrous object using a magnetic field its gonna become pretty magnetic in its own right. So would having a large magnet embedded in its internals effect a mechs systems?

No. By the time the slug reaches your 'Mech, it will have lost all of its magnetism (unless it's a pre-magnetized slug, I think). Besides, a PPC goes into your 'Mech and overloads your HUD circuits, causing the staticy stuff you see.

Strum Wealh, on 01 April 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Where, specifically, are these several instances stating that multiple Gauss Rifles could not be fires simultaneously?

Gauss Rifles, as coilguns, operate using a capacitor bank that is charged by electricity from the Fusion Engine.
In fact, it is explicitly stated that it is that capacitor bank that explodes when the weapon itself takes a critical hit, resulting in effects identical to an ammunition explosion (as Gauss Rifle ammunition, as sets of solid nickel-ferrous slugs, is itself inert).

With each Gauss Rifle having its own capacitor bank, the Fusion Engine would need only to be able to charge all of the capacitor banks at the same time (probably by modeling each Gauss Rifle as a single capacitor and building them into the 'Mech as a circuit with the "capacitors" in parallel).

In the example and using this graphic, the Fusion Engine would be represented by the voltage source (the symbol at the bottom of the figure) and each Gauss Rifle would be represented by a capacitor ("C1" - Gauss Rifle 01, "C2" = Gauss Rifle 02, "C3" = Gauss Rifle 03).

For C = capacitance in farads, V = voltage in volts, R = resistance in ohms of a resistor placed between the voltage source and the capacitors, and (Vs - Vc) = voltage across a resistor placed between the voltage source and the capacitors:
charge (Q) in coulombs = C * V
stored energy (E) in joules = 0.5 * C * V^2
combined capacitance (C_tot) for parallel arrangement = C1 + C2 + C3 + ...
time constant (lower = fast charging) = R * C
charging current (I) = (Vs - Vc)/R

Also, the capacitor banks of the Gauss Rifles would/should(?) actually be part of two circuits - one connecting them to the Fusion Engine for charging and the other connecting them to their respective Gauss Rifle's firing coils (into which they would discharge), with each disengaging when the other is engaged...?

Your thoughts?

For all of you who didn't read this, a capacitor is basicly a battery that can discharge very fast with a lot of power, as compared to the fusion engine which provides a lot of power, but not all at once.

[geck0 icaza]

Lt Trevnor, on 01 April 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

I don't know if that's the actual case... I believe I've read a few books, where two gauss rifles could fire at the same time, but I may be mistaken.

Actually this is interesting as I just finished re-reading the kerensky trilogy and this is some what accurate. However, it occurs even it is just one gauss rifle. This doesn't occur for just 2 or more. As it was described it taxed the system too hard to be able to fire any weapon at the same time. They're are a few times in which a gauss was fired and then followed by a laser even though they were triggered at the same time.

This wouldn't be a bad idea as it would lessen the likeliness of them being paired with their counterparts the PPC's and fired in MW4 alpha style. Would be a great quirk for the weapon IMO.

Note: it's never worked out arguing reality in comparison to Battletech as it clearly stated in Total War that, now im paraphrasing of course "we know it doesn't shoot as far or hit as hard. But its cool and fun so deal with". Ohh wait that was paraphrasing a lot.

Edited by geck0 icaza, 01 April 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[flyn taggart]

multiple gauss rifles no, but how about a long tom on a mech? the gauss rifle is a great weapon,but to fire more than one at the same time......if they do put that in it should have a mech restart time on due to an over load on heat sinks. so multple gauss rifles can be mounted, firing them would be the risk(but what is life without risk)in work for the brown coast.

[Sug]

Gausszilla has five gauss rifles.

[EDMW CSN]

Doesn't matter to game play. If that guy mounts 3 to 5 gauss rifles, let him broadside fire it all or chain fire it if he like.
Bear in mind if TT ammo is used, most gauss mechs only have 16 shots of ammo (2 tons).

They have to make every shot count and with convergence in place..... They better be dead on.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 01 April 2012 - 08:13 PM.

[Omigir]

^Devastator alpha striking on the cover of this Battletech Naval with dual Guass and Dual PPC

[Sug]

*squints*

[Hanged Man]

Eh. I'm not very familiar with the novels, and I'm not a big fan of letting references pulled from a few books change gameplay so much. No video or TT game had to make special rules for gauss rifles, and considering the tradeoffs you make for their power, I don't see a need to.

[Omigir]

I tried to find a biger picture but ht one on amazon is messed up. Its one of the books I own though, not with me at the moment or i would scan it for you to see yourself

[Suskis]

Novels mean nothing. Is it in rulebooks? No. Then it doesn't happen.
Novels are written by writers and not by game designers.
(btw: I recall making a 5 gauss rifles mech using level 3 technology...)

[Arctic Fox]

Suskis, on 01 April 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Novels mean nothing. Is it in rulebooks? No. Then it doesn't happen.
Novels are written by writers and not by game designers.
(btw: I recall making a 5 gauss rifles mech using level 3 technology...)

Actually, BattleTech's writers and game designers are quite often the same people, and the novels are quite canon. That said, I can't recall any instances of it being stated that you can't fire two Gauss rifles at the same time. It doesn't even show up in the Solaris VII rules, which is the logical place for something like that.

[EDMW CSN]

Omigir, on 01 April 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

^Devastator alpha striking on the cover of this Battletech Naval with dual Guass and Dual PPC

Isn't really an Alpha strike considering that the Devastator has 4 medium lasers as well. But with 14 DHS (28 heat dissipate), it is meant to fire the Dual Gauss and dual PPCs together anyway (22 + 2 from running).

[Omigir]

[EDMW]CSN, on 01 April 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

Isn't really an Alpha strike considering that the Devastator has 4 medium lasers as well. But with 14 DHS (28 heat dissipate), it is meant to fire the Dual Gauss and dual PPCs together anyway (22 + 2 from running).

You are very clever. I like you. *gives a cookie*

[Strum Wealh]

Omigir, on 01 April 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

I tried to find a biger picture but ht one on amazon is messed up. Its one of the books I own though, not with me at the moment or i would scan it for you to see yourself

Sarna has a scan in multiple resolutions (up to 1217x2008 ).

[Gigaton]

On bit unrelated note, I love how Titans of Steel has the ability to choose reactor. Something with just autocannons and machineguns don't need much power. But gauss rifles take 1 point of unreserved energy to fire (not reload, like with energy weapons) so you might not be able to fire multiple ones per turn, especially if you have energy weapons reloading and eating up power.

[Major Tom]

I'd like to point out that if a Guass "Rifle" required such immense power draw from the engine, it would generate an ungodly amount of heat (like a PPC), so capacitor are the most 'logical' option (although why they don't have use the same technolgoy for PPCs is unexplanable, unless it is just old cheap technology)

I would also like to point out that it isn't a Rifle, a rifle indicates that the barrel has rifling, used to impart spin and prevent tumbling. This is actually counter productive for a high velocity "kinetic energy penetrator" round.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Major Tom, on 02 April 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

I'd like to point out that if a Guass "Rifle" required such immense power draw from the engine, it would generate an ungodly amount of heat (like a PPC), so capacitor are the most 'logical' option (although why they don't have use the same technolgoy for PPCs is unexplanable, unless it is just old cheap technology)

I would also like to point out that it isn't a Rifle, a rifle indicates that the barrel has rifling, used to impart spin and prevent tumbling. This is actually counter productive for a high velocity "kinetic energy penetrator" round.

Introduced in 2590 by the Terran Hegemony^[4], the Gauss Rifle utilizes a series of electromagnets to propel slugs of ferrous nickel-iron alloy at extremely high velocities^[5], making it a devastating and lethal long-range weapon. Unlike most traditional ballistic weapons, the Gauss Rifle does not use combustible propellant, so its firing generates very little heat. However, the sheer mass and bulk of the weapon limits its applications.

Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion.

Edited by DV^McKenna, 02 April 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Fafnir
http://www.sarna.net...avy_Gauss_Rifle

in the battletech field manual for steiner it talks about staggering the rounds from the HGR to avoid toppling over. otherwise i dont recall their being an issue about firing multiple gauss rounds