25 replies to this topic

[Lamenter captain]

When you log into a match and fully half of the opposing team and a quarter or your team is piloting SSRM2 catapults.

Five tons between the dragon and the catapult but it may as well be forty. Am I asking for a nerf? no not at all but as a dragon pilot I believe the solid and reliable dragon needs some love. Maybe allow the dragon to pack a LRM15.. it is supported in canon. I really am not sure what can be done but as the game is now there is simply no reason to ever pick a dragon over a catapult other than preference. The catapult is superior or can be made superior in every way.

[Wired Aces]

Streaks will soon be changed so that they are not nearly as effective as they are now, so that won't stay the same.

[Lootee]

It's because streaks are currently the only way to kill the unrammable light mech and cicada swarms that are lagging around at 150kph.

If things get fixed so that lights can actually be hit, you'll see streak cat frequency drop back to how they were before the patch.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 27 October 2012 - 08:12 PM.

[Mr Butterworth]

I love piloting my dragon much much more than a catapult. I know that catapults have crazy good combinations people can make but often times they are at the cost of armor. I like the Dragon because they have nice stock engine for speed and can carry some ok firepower. They may not be a great mech for going out and destroying half of the opposing team, but they can be a serious pest that can take quite a bit of damage. I'm currently running a dragon with 2 ac2s and 2 medium lasers and nearly full armor. I don't get tons of kills but chain firing ac2s at an unsuspecting mech from far away can really shake them off your teammates with lots of firepower.

So I guess to sum things up, the dragon isn't really a killer as it is a supporter. It can take a lot of damage and maneuver the field quickly. It's designed to be a team player rather than team killer.

Plus they look amazing!

[Freeride Forever]

Yep, the Dragon is a joke. It's supposed to be hard to knock over & very durable in the CT. Neither of those conditions seemed to be true & especially in the case of knocking one over. Lights knocked mine over all the time. Cat's must be top heavy, they should be easier to knock over but the system overall is pretty bad. To think that a robot wouldn't try to keep itself upright when pushed is ********. The military is testing 4-legged robots for carrying cargo for soldiers through the **** & they were bootin' the thing all over the place & couldn't knock it down.

.

The way things were in MWO it was almost like if a Fatlas farted at my Jenner from 10 meters away I'd fall over.

Dragon has a speed advantage for its weight but that's not really enough to compensate for most of the firepower being concentrated in one easy to remove location & that firepower either needing to be very heavy ballistics (AC/LBX) or very useless ballistics (you know what I'm talkin' 'bout) all of which tend to grab nearby enemies attention & focus on the Dragon. It needs to be made into a highly stable platform, solid around the core & have the potential to use all of those qualities as a battering ram. Then at least if you lose the arm or even if you don't you can catch up to & plow into things with more favorable results for the Dragon. Even if you run full tilt 'n' boogie into a Fatlas I think the Dragon shouldn't go down & the leg or that big ol' ball sack on the Fatlas should be damaged more than the CT of the Dragon.

Hopefully there will be high priority objects that will need to be transported in the game & something like the Dragon will have more value with its hand & high speed for its size. Say'n?

Edited by Freeride Forever, 27 October 2012 - 08:53 PM.

[CHWarpath]

Lamenter captain, on 27 October 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

When you log into a match and fully half of the opposing team and a quarter or your team is piloting SSRM2 catapults.

Five tons between the dragon and the catapult but it may as well be forty. Am I asking for a nerf? no not at all but as a dragon pilot I believe the solid and reliable dragon needs some love. Maybe allow the dragon to pack a LRM15.. it is supported in canon. I really am not sure what can be done but as the game is now there is simply no reason to ever pick a dragon over a catapult other than preference. The catapult is superior or can be made superior in every way.

The dragon is just fine, I use it a lot. Your are a just a bad player and need to re-evaluate your game. As for missiles, they are lame skilless weapons that do not belong in any video game in existence. Any real gamer will promote skill and balance.

[Penneywize]

Freeride Forever, on 27 October 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

Yep, the Dragon is a joke. It's supposed to be hard to knock over & very durable in the CT. Neither of those conditions seemed to be true & especially in the case of knocking one over. Lights knocked mine over all the time. Cat's must be top heavy, they should be easier to knock over but the system overall is pretty bad. To think that a robot wouldn't try to keep itself upright when pushed is ********. The military is testing 4-legged robots for carrying cargo for soldiers through the **** & they were bootin' the thing all over the place & couldn't knock it down.

.

The way things were in MWO it was almost like if a Fatlas farted at my Jenner from 10 meters away I'd fall over.

Dragon has a speed advantage for its weight but that's not really enough to compensate for most of the firepower being concentrated in one easy to remove location & that firepower either needing to be very heavy ballistics (AC/LBX) or very useless ballistics (you know what I'm talkin' 'bout) all of which tend to grab nearby enemies attention & focus on the Dragon. It needs to be made into a highly stable platform, solid around the core & have the potential to use all of those qualities as a battering ram. Then at least if you lose the arm or even if you don't you can catch up to & plow into things with more favorable results for the Dragon. Even if you run full tilt 'n' boogie into a Fatlas I think the Dragon shouldn't go down & the leg or that big ol' ball sack on the Fatlas should be damaged more than the CT of the Dragon.

Hopefully there will be high priority objects that will need to be transported in the game & something like the Dragon will have more value with its hand & high speed for its size. Say'n?

Second post, just wanted to say that this dude is the coolest guy ever. Want to hang out? We should be friends.

[Jacmac]

CHWarpath, on 27 October 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Your are a just a bad player and need to re-evaluate your game.

I are seeing a lot of players make statements like this lately, it seems like a reflex action for some people.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Oh, the Dragon and its tumorous, bloated center torso.
At least you can slap a high end XL engine on that thing without much sacrifice in the way of durability, and maybe one or two arm-mounted Gauss Rifles, if you're feeling adventurous, and would prefer a 'Mech that's more accurate and responsive than a K2.

Edited by Lorcan Lladd, 28 October 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Sean von Steinike]

So, stay out of brawl range with them.

[Margood]

CHWarpath, on 27 October 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

The dragon is just fine, I use it a lot. Your are a just a bad player and need to re-evaluate your game. As for missiles, they are lame skilless weapons that do not belong in any video game in existence. Any real gamer will promote skill and balance.

Thanks for the flame, worthless answer from a bloated snob.

Jacmac, on 27 October 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

I are seeing a lot of players make statements like this lately, it seems like a reflex action for some people.

I agree, just the snobs bloviating. It's easy to be a jackass on an anonymous forum.

[Redshift2k5]

during closed beta, with no real economic incentives, Streakcat A1s are fun and brutal.

After Open Beta, they're going to be very expensive to field if you're trying to grind money. My latest A1 repair bill is over 157k, and that was with a win/survival. That's a very slim profit margin as compared to say, 50k to repair a double heatsink 8 MLS Swayback.

[Lamenter captain]

CHWarpath, on 27 October 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

The dragon is just fine, I use it a lot. Your are a just a bad player and need to re-evaluate your game. As for missiles, they are lame skilless weapons that do not belong in any video game in existence. Any real gamer will promote skill and balance.

I may be a bad player but that does not somehow make the dragon "just fine". The fact that the dragon is easy to hit in any torso or arm position while the cat is not is the first advantage to the Cat followed by the weapons restrictions that allow the Cat to be a brute and the dragon to be much more difficult to make an impact with. I do not agree that LRMs are skillless but I do think that currently they are doing too much damage. Anytime i see a premade it is a number of LRM boats backeed by Jenners with maybe a Cat K2 or two in the mix or it is a swarm of SSRMCats.

Which do you pilot CHWarpath? I pilot a dragon 1N with LRM10 and ERPPC with enough DHS to chainfire. I do ok. My point is that when everyone is using the same mech and loadout you have to seriously evaluate why, If the SSRMcat is so good you either bring other mechs up or you balance the cat down. Personally I would like to see my dragon made a bit more flexable. Would be nice to have a missle or ballistic hardpoint in the torso areas. Right now most of out hardpoints are arm which makes us fragile. Our center torso is a huge target as is out left and right and the 10-20KPH advantange is not so that big of a deal.

Dragon pilots do so as a labor of love. Just asking for a little love from PGI.

[The Basilisk]

Let the fact aside the dragon shouldn't even in game the catapult got more weak spots than every other Mech in Game.
Espetialy compared with the dragon.
The main point i could carve free of the whining and noobrage when reading through the many many "oh pleaz buffz drogonz because i kant rofflspompz anymore" posts is the dragon was nearly un-topable before the last patch, because the colision mechanics were simply broken. Now they are simply taken out of the Game for revision and reconstruction (read the last implementation of beta discussions on this)
Many players that were used to the dragon as brawler simply overrun an enemy and melted the now topeled foe to ashes.
Now this taktik ( by the way what was simply exploit using / bugusing ) isn't available anymore and this very players discover the Dragon isn't realy a standup fighter/brawler by concept but a fast, light armored, med range, fire support mech.
The Dragon is no Hitman. Never was intended so.
Regarding to SSRM Catas, yea its a pity.
So many players are unable to simply line up the SSRMers for free Headshots.
Even a Comando can do that with the right pilot.
Not to speak of Laser Hunchies, PPK / Gauss Atlases, or AC Boats.
Oh wait that were nearly all Mechs, right ?
Again just target slightly above the Windscreen of the Cat stay calm and give him. Atemping to go brawl in a Cat is just hilarious. As soon as there are more seasoned players around their use will diminish. Or when the weapons lag, the server lag or other things get smoothed out so using weapons like SSRM in masses gets cost ineffective compared to other weapons.

[siLve00]

if some1 kills you with a streak cata... well 25% ammo will cost him 95k credits

just smile.. and well he has to pay the bill.. oh and btw.. i hate to fight dragons with my streakcat. no clue but i pump so much ammo into then.. they are fast and you get alot of hits on the arm.

so if they change the hitdetection for ssrm... i would realy like it... because this focus fire is 50% of the time, not very handy..
if you have a good and skilled enemy.. it can be that you destroy everything of him.. but hes still alivejfi .. not saying .. and you just lost 30-40% of your ammo.
jfi .. not saying that a streakcat in good hands is a killer. ... but what i dont get... since all complaining about lrm´s.. why not take them out before they come even in range ... hola............

[Lamenter captain]

I will agree that tackleing was getting stupid. being tackled by a light so that his LRM boat team mates could pound you into dust was not fun at all. I think collisions should do damage the lighter the mech the more damage that mech takes. A jenner that rams a atlas at 127KPH should basically just disintigrate while the atlas takes moderate damage.

Back to the dragon, sure the dragon is a medium range support mech but with the way hit boxes work the dragon is at a disadvantage to the catapult mainly having to do with hit boxes and hardpoints.

Of course if PGI would impliment a Griffin, Shadowhawk, or Wolverine I would drop the dragon and move to one of them.

[IIIuminaughty]

if streaks would just do elss range outside 270m instead of no damage, it be a lot better
So streaks to me are worthless unles su have an er large laser to back it up

[John Norad]

Players adapt, and there will always be some kind of fotm if you have lots of choices, customization, and changing/evolving game mechanics. For example Eve Online is a game where it's pretty much the same.

But that doesn't necessarily mean the fotm or the parts it consists of have to be nerfed. Quite often the reason can be found in certain circumstances. You know, the old cause/symptom thing.
Remove the cause (lag, lots of light mechs, etc.) and the symptoms (streak srm) will go away.

If you try to fix problems at the wrong point, you'll just end up with a completely broken system.

Imagine there will be no lag or for some other reason light/fast mechs will be easier to hit. But you previously tried to 'balance' the ssrm problem proliferation by making the ammo super expensive.
Players will switch to more effective weapons to combat fast targets and the ssrm ends up broken, because it's too expensive and inefficient.

The ssrm already is inefficient (or at least should be), but somehow it's major trait seems to offset this. Find the cause, eliminate it, and all should be fine.
If a balance that should work, doesn't work, you should search for some major game mechanic flaws instead of band-aiding and creating a big messy patchwork you'll have to completely rework eventually.

Edited by John Norad, 28 October 2012 - 07:02 AM.

[Sug]

The ssrm cats will be toned down when they adjust streaks so they don't always hit the center torso.

[Tempworker]

CHWarpath, on 27 October 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

The dragon is just fine, I use it a lot. Your are a just a bad player and need to re-evaluate your game. As for missiles, they are lame skilless weapons that do not belong in any video game in existence. Any real gamer will promote skill and balance.

yeah.. ok...
how you liking that gausscat?
dragons aren't as effective as they should be..
lights should be able to be knocked down (the bigger problem was having them trip larger mechs to stall for hunting medium groups