24 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

One thing sorely missing from most Mechwarrior games is true LOS radar. Radar that doesn't go through hills and only gives you a scattered report of your surroundings. It'd be neat to see this put in.

That and possibly Satellite Uplink a la MW 2 style--which requires you to switch to another fullscreen mode to see it so you can't run it constantly.

[Brixx]

But Mechwarrior takes place about 1000 years in the future. And its a rather militaristic setting so I assume radar technology will be advanced. But as we do have something like a "MechCommander" having an overview and if we can relate to the trailer also spy drones... everything will be possible.

[Aleksandr]

Agreed. This would also carve out more area for specialized mechs. Also increases the positives of buying/equipping more specialized gear.

Scouting mechs could have a real impact in team settings...

[Brixx]

Aleksandr, on 02 November 2011 - 09:33 AM, said:

Scouting mechs could have a real impact in team settings...

Thats what I hope for... give us a real reason to move out of our heavies and assaults and I am very willing to do so.

[Mister Blastman]

Exactly. Nothing wrong with forcing people to play as a "team." LOS radar would add tremendously to the experience. Sure, it is in the future but as we know even now, using stuff like neutrino's to get around the hills would mean they'd more than likely go through the targets also. Physics is physics.

[John Clavell]

I'm hoping we see Radar, Seismic, Magnetic, the whole lot. With environments that tie into effecting how or what your can scope on sensors to the environment playing a big roll in LOS. Rain on the windshield of your cockpit making it harder to see. Fog, nighttime. Underwater battles, hot and cold effecting more than just your heatsinks, the list goes on and on.

Edited by john clavell, 02 November 2011 - 09:40 AM.

[omegaclawe]

I'd also like to see things that are partially obscured to the radar not tell the player what, exactly, they are, but still give hints to that extent. E.g. certain mechs always make a certain shape of squiggly. This means that you can gain advantages by being good at reading the radar, IRL, rather than just being good at lining up shots.

[DFDelta]

LOS radar sounds like a good thing, but do not just make it block radar completely, but make it reduce radar efficiency depending on the terrain thats blocking sight.

A bunch of trees should have only a slingt impact, 50m of earth and stone (eg a small hill between you and your target) should block your radar far more, and a building constructed from cement and steel should have the worst impact on your radar.

And it should have far more impact on what data you get, depending on distance between you and your target and what lies between you. For example:
- Seeing nothing if there is too much interference.
- Only showing "unknown contact"
- Knowing at least the rough estimate on how big it is (something between 20 and 50 tons)
- More detailed information on enemy weight. (between 30 and 40 tons)
- Exact weight.
- And lastly, knowing what mech it is only if you're relatively close and have a clean LOS.

Edited by DFDelta, 02 November 2011 - 09:58 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

omegaclawe, on 02 November 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

I'd also like to see things that are partially obscured to the radar not tell the player what, exactly, they are, but still give hints to that extent. E.g. certain mechs always make a certain shape of squiggly. This means that you can gain advantages by being good at reading the radar, IRL, rather than just being good at lining up shots.

Well right. Also, LOS implies that if there is a BIG mech in front of me, everything behind it will be a shadow, i.e. won't show up on the radar due to it being blocked by the mech too. Terrain shouldn't just block the radar, but objects should as well.

[TheForce]

Mr_Blastman, on 02 November 2011 - 09:39 AM, said:

Exactly. Nothing wrong with forcing people to play as a "team." LOS radar would add tremendously to the experience. Sure, it is in the future but as we know even now, using stuff like neutrino's to get around the hills would mean they'd more than likely go through the targets also. Physics is physics.

+1 I'm all over LOS radar as gameplay will be way better.

[mithril coyote]

i say split the differnce between omniscent and LOS based.

Mechs are supposed to have lots of different sensors. thermal vision, nightvision, radar, seismic sensors, magnetic resonance, and so on. the mech's computer takes all this input and creates a composite display showing the situation around the mech.

so have an omniscent display. any mech or vehicle coming into it's range shows up. but anything not in LOS of the mech would show up with a fainter icon and less information displayed. say, no target ID, weight class, or whatever. create a fog of war.

[saber15]

brixx, on 02 November 2011 - 09:32 AM, said:

But Mechwarrior takes place about 1000 years in the future. And its a rather militaristic setting so I assume radar technology will be advanced. But as we do have something like a "MechCommander" having an overview and if we can relate to the trailer also spy drones... everything will be possible.

LOS radar makes the game much more tactical. In MW4, with the optional line-of-sight radar rules, it's possible to sneak up on an enemy with something like a Hunchback, blast them in the back, then sneak back behind cover and come in from a different angle. Radar upgrades would allow the enemy to see you through buildings so long as you don't have ECM.

Without line of sight rules, they would always detect you at exactly 500 meters, so sneaking up was next to impossible.

[Stormwolf]

john clavell, on 02 November 2011 - 09:40 AM, said:

I'm hoping we see Radar, Seismic, Magnetic, the whole lot. With environments that tie into effecting how or what your can scope on sensors to the environment playing a big roll in LOS. Rain on the windshield of your cockpit making it harder to see. Fog, nighttime. Underwater battles, hot and cold effecting more than just your heatsinks, the list goes on and on.

I'd love to see all of those things.

[Brixx]

saber15, on 02 November 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

LOS radar makes the game much more tactical. In MW4, with the optional line-of-sight radar rules, it's possible to sneak up on an enemy with something like a Hunchback, blast them in the back, then sneak back behind cover and come in from a different angle. Radar upgrades would allow the enemy to see you through buildings so long as you don't have ECM.

Without line of sight rules, they would always detect you at exactly 500 meters, so sneaking up was next to impossible.

Of course it makes it more tactical. Theres just two hearts beating in my body. The one griefing for realism... or possbile realism. And the other one is concerned about gameplay. Such low tech radars are not what I think of when it comes to the year 3xxx but it definitly would add to gameplay... sort of. Depends...

[TheForce]

brixx, on 02 November 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

realism...

Walking tanks are not real

[Elucid Ward]

theforce, on 02 November 2011 - 03:22 PM, said:

Walking tanks are not real

...yet.

[infinite xaer0]

*sigh* Earthsiege II, a mech sim that came out in the same year as MW2, had LOS radar. That was 1996, so MW is kinda behind on times with this feature. haha.

With that said, this game absolutely needs LOS radar, without it, I don't see how scout mechs would be in any way useful.

[Kumakichi]

mithril coyote, on 02 November 2011 - 11:46 AM, said:

i say split the differnce between omniscent and LOS based.

Mechs are supposed to have lots of different sensors. thermal vision, nightvision, radar, seismic sensors, magnetic resonance, and so on. the mech's computer takes all this input and creates a composite display showing the situation around the mech.

so have an omniscent display. any mech or vehicle coming into it's range shows up. but anything not in LOS of the mech would show up with a fainter icon and less information displayed. say, no target ID, weight class, or whatever. create a fog of war.

That would all rock. Mostly I'm hoping that scout mechs have there intended purpose and everything else would be a bonus.

[Mister Blastman]

brixx, on 02 November 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

Of course it makes it more tactical. Theres just two hearts beating in my body. The one griefing for realism... or possbile realism. And the other one is concerned about gameplay. Such low tech radars are not what I think of when it comes to the year 3xxx but it definitly would add to gameplay... sort of. Depends...

Year 3049 or not, you can't get around physics. There are twenty or so odd constants that govern our physical universe and as such, they are set and there is no changing them. You also can't get around physical laws, either (unless they are proven invalid). Sure, by 3049 mankind might find something new but as of right now, we don't know how and contextually speaking, any assumptions made in regards to radar technology should fall within these known laws insofar.

While most matter might be empty (and we know not what is nothing--no one has properly defined it), electromagnetic waves do have issues penetrating certain densities and those that _can_ penetrate these densities, would not reflect back to allow you to gather a sensor reading--so you'd still see nothing.

I'm not going to bore you with physics unless you want me to--but I can.

[Mitchpate]

Mektek implemented line of sight radar in MW4 and the end result is that most remaining leagues chose not to use it. In theory it's nice, in the actual game with two highly coordinated teams playing on a large and geographically complex map it's a pretty terrible mechanic. Most teams just assume it's team only radar and don't even bother placing a heavy emphasis on scouting. Your scout has to basically stumble upon the enemy team and too often that results in a raped scout.

Just because it's more realistic doesn't mean it's more fun.

Edited by Mitchpate, 02 November 2011 - 08:45 PM.