147 replies to this topic

[Okie135]

Hi everyone.

When internet gaming was first becoming easily available with places like GameSpy and Microsoft Gaming Zone, it was a very different place than it was today. Computer gaming took a good deal of initiative between compatibility, patches, weird software glitches and the like. This lead to an interesting divide. MechWarrior 3 on the internet with an incredible community. We helped each other, encouraged one another, and taught new players how to play better. (Lead the target!) This was contrasted by checkers... The game that everyone had access to was filled with cursing, vile rhetoric and hate speech. It was a cesspool of the human condition.

Another contrast. 3-4 months after the launch of Halo 2 was a turning point for me. The community was skilled, intelligent, and friendly. Around the 4th month, it was insulting, troll-ific, and rotten. That was about the same time that the Xbox Live community got the reputation it has today, and it was also about then that I just left my headset muted online.

Please take a look here: http://penny-arcade....sode/harassment Warning: There are some nasty text messages used which are unedited. Use discretion.

I would be saddened to see this community go the way of the others. Towards that end we CAN do something about it.

My fellow MechWarriors, we have a duty to treat one another with respect. For the most part, we do rather well. Before you post something, please take the time to read it. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are trying to insult you or pick a fight. Be nice to the newbies, we were all there at one point. We are the harbingers of the first MechWarrior game in over TEN YEARS! We will rise to the challenge.

To the developers: Would you kindly take a look at the video if you have not already? I think a reputation system for Merc Corp's and other player units would be awesome. You could even roll it in with a Dragoon rating for the unit!

Any thoughts? Any other ideas for preventing harassment here and in the game?

[Helmer]

+1 Well put sir!

I've always thought this community was rather special. Perhaps it's the higher median age, or maybe its just that Battletech fans are that much cooler than everyone else, but this is definitely one of the best communities out there. Especially in terms of respect and "noob" friendliness.

The Developer interaction and sense of community fostered by Garth and others clearly shines in a internet filled with hives of scum and villainy.




Cheers.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I agree whole heartedly here. It is sad when someone for example asks: Hey where do I find such and such or so and so, and all they get is silence or snide chiding. I love Battletech and Mechwarrior, and while MOST of our community is wonderful, from our awesome moderators to the devs who take time out to interact with us, sometimes via PM or just in the threads, there are some who are already taking a harrassing standpoint. I will not name names here, but, I have already experienced it. And sadly, it forced me to kill a thread I made because I refused to see a valid topic get ruined by comments like: if you have to ask, then dont or perhaps its best if you just dont say anything anyway. I for one want to see us stand united and bring help to those who ask for it and guidence to the new.

[Glory in the Highest]

Absolutely agree. Rampant harassment ruins communities. It's already begun in this one, there's no question of that. It definitely takes members of the community standing up to the offending members, be they friends/teammates or strangers. The mods can't be the only ones fighting the good fight, if it's to have any chance of succeeding.

Edited by Glory, 26 April 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[Kierstad]

Very nicely put, and definitely a +1.

[Volturnus]

I agree here, this community is something special. I think the general friendliness around here has something to do with the fact that fans of BattleTech are often 15+ year fans and there's a certain connection between members of the community and a welcoming attitude towards new members who are just discovering the universe. Unfortunately when it comes to harassers I think the only thing you can really do is remove them from your community.

[Kierstad]

Helmer, on 26 April 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

The Developer interaction and sense of community fostered by Garth and others clearly shines in a internet filled with hives of scum and villainy.

Well said...for a good example of what not to do, go look at the forums for Ghost Recon Online...I was an avid fan of Rogue Spear and Ghost Recon, but after participating in their closed beta and seeing the kind of stuff that goes on in their forums let alone in-game, it was an instant turn off.

Whatever it is that gives this community its civility and maturity, I sincerely hope it doesn't lose it.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Volturnus, on 26 April 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I agree here, this community is something special. I think the general friendliness around here has something to do with the fact that fans of BattleTech are often 15+ year fans and there's a certain connection between members of the community and a welcoming attitude towards new members who are just discovering the universe. Unfortunately when it comes to harassers I think the only thing you can really do is remove them from your community.

One problem, unless those thorns in our side that the Mods kick are IP banned, they can just make new accounts and start anew. But, ya, we ALL must stand united! We are the world people! from the top!

[Zylo]

This will probably be an issue that continues with F2P games. Filters and ignore functions work for some players but for the most part it's up to the community to control issues and I suspect there will be some sort of complaint system for serious offenses. I personally don't care to use ignore functions or chat filters but in other past games I've made sure guys that cause trouble get their app rejected whenever they try to join a group that my friends or I are part of.

Players will get a bad rep over time when enough players see their actions, there are certainly ways to settle the score with troublemakers in game that fall well within the rules, such as refusing to help a known troublemaker in a match (possibly even going as far as letting the enemy team know you won't interfere). Exclusion of known troublemakers from player units will also help isolate them and preserve the rep of the units by not allowing known troublemakers to wear the unit tag.

[Zylo]

Rejarial Galatan, on 26 April 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

One problem, unless those thorns in our side that the Mods kick are IP banned, they can just make new accounts and start anew. But, ya, we ALL must stand united! We are the world people! from the top!

How many times do you think players will keep making new accounts to harass the community? Having to start over each time will probably stop the majority after a few times. These guys tend to go for the most damage in the least amount of time.

The most dedicated troublemakers will probably just keep making new accounts probably won't be stopped by an IP ban anyway. It's just up to the community to keep reporting/complaining so the in-game mods can take action with bans.

[Dirk Le Daring]

OP

Well said.

[Hollister]

I know some of the RP gets a little heated a times with battletech when you mix hardcore clanners with long time innersphere players. But going out and trying to find someone to harass is something i do not tolerate at all. Even more so for sexuall harassment. it is just something that will always stick with me from the Marines. Swift and harsh punishment is normaly the most effective way to kill the problem. With a massive game with what could be over hundreds of thousands of players, that begins to be a really hard thing to do effectively.

One way to kill the problem would be in the license aggrement to play the game that harassment would not be tolerated at all and will get you banned. They would have to shows signs of repeated offenses or if such actions are recorded some how.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Having been harrassed IRL, I know the pain that comes with it. While I am ALL FOR RP harrassment, I in no way condone the real stuff. I myself, when I was but a wee 6th grader <graduated HS in May 2001 for time clarification> I was nearly killed by a fellow classmate when he took harrassing me to a whole new level and kicked me as hard as he could in my lower 4 left ribs. I dont need to tell those who know anatomy how lucky I am to be alive. What sucked more than nearly being killed was the teacher harrassing me after by saying: What did YOU do to provoke him? All i DID was sit there on my spot in the gym waiting for that sleezy coach to call roll. SO, no punishment is too harsh on REAL harrassment.

[Kaemon]

+1, you have my vote and my mechs sir, as well as my earnest pledge to stand up to this type of bs whenever I see it.

And the auto block for chat (voice or text) is a wonderful thing.

[LordDeathStrike]

the problem lies in that theres no accountability. people fear no repurcussions for their behaivior. in real life you wouldnt walk up to a group of <ethnicity A> and use <racial slur A> because you know they would beat the life out of you for doing it. but on the internet you feel like youre safe so you fling your slurs like they are please and thank you.

some countries are writing laws to punish internet trolls, severly. but prison doesnt deter anything, just look at the us prison system, 3 meals, shelter, tv, all the sex you never wanted to have. we got people getting put in jail just because its cushier then being homeless. we need to reinstitute hanging as the primary punishment for all crime including obvious internet trollings with racial slurr spamming and incesent insulting. if the fear of death wont deter you then at least you wont be a repeat offender.

[Runz]

Definite +1 and it is only the community that can promote the idea of unity and mutual respect. It is a sad fact as games become bigger they attract more people of which a proportion will be trolls, slavering degenerates and immature morons - personally I'm of the belief that the community need to police these issues. The Moderators can't track the action of 85,000+ players (and thats the number before Beta), but the existing community can set a good example for new players.

Report players who are abusive and that means report players who are abusive to others not just to you. I'm sure we've all done it, where you see someone big a complete d*ck to a new player or something but you keep your mouth shut and don't tackle it cos you just want to get the dungeon/battleground done. I know have, but it's wrong because my silence has only condemned me to betray the principles I have about building better online communities.

Guild Leaders (Unit Leaders etc etc) - Make sure you maintain a code of conduct for your members so that they know what is and is not acceptable. Remember these people are going to be carrying your tag under their name, what they say and do reflects on you and yours. Most guilds WoW have codes of conduct and certainly I know any guild I've been in will investigate complaints against guild members which usually result in a guild kick if proven. Nothing provides incentive like not being able to play with your friends cos they think you're a scumbag. Most units seem to have this philosophy anyway which is great.

Institute a code of conduct for the community. LoL gets a bad rap for the conduct of its players, and rightly so a lot of the time. There are some fantastic people who play that game, but there are some real ignorant nasty pieces of work. But one innovation I do like is the summoner's code:

I. Support your team.
II. Drive constructive feedback
III. Facilitate civil discussion
IV. Enjoy yourself, but not at anyone elses' expense
V. Build relationships
VI. Show humility in victory, grace in defeat
VII. Be resolute, not indignant
VII. LEAVE NO NEWBIE BEHIND
VIII. Lead by example.

As a set of ideals I think they're exactly what just about every online game community seeks to strive for, unfortunately I don't think they're policed too well in LoL.

So maybe that's what we need to do, sit down as a community and - inconjunction with the Devs/Mods - work out a code of conduct. Set it out now, not 18 months after launch, so that it is ingrained in the community from day one and so everyone new who joins knows the standards this community holds itself to. After all I bet you'd end up getting more consistent players and wider interest from the gaming community as a whole if the game has a nice atmosphere than if you just allowed trolls to persist. Minecraft is probably one of the best examples of a (completely decentralised!) community that holds itself to high standards of conduct and minecraft servers flourish as a result - everyone wants to get onto the best community driven servers and build huge projects together.

Lots of examples from different games but if we can take the good and leave the bad then we can be a beacon in the gaming community.

Edited by Runz, 26 April 2012 - 09:47 PM.

[StaIker]

To be honest I'm not a huge fan of language controls. I don't mind salty and/or abusive remarks, in fact I think a lot of the conversational humor to be found in a game is often contained within that sort of langauge and it adds another level of enjoyment to the experience. It really bugs me that because 1 or 2 people might not like curse words, the other 20 in the server have to behave like they are in sunday school. A mute/ignore button is perfectly adequate for those who prefer a G rated life experience, please don't treat a large community of adults like we are pre-schoolers and need to be told off for using a bad word. The easily offended should not set the standard for what everyone else can say.

[Runz]

StaIker, on 26 April 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

To be honest I'm not a huge fan of language controls. I don't mind salty and/or abusive remarks, in fact I think a lot of the conversational humor to be found in a game is often contained within that sort of langauge and it adds another level of enjoyment to the experience. It really bugs me that because 1 or 2 people might not like curse words, the other 20 in the server have to behave like they are in sunday school. A mute/ignore button is perfectly adequate for those who prefer a G rated life experience, please don't treat a large community of adults like we are pre-schoolers and need to be told off for using a bad word. The easily offended should not set the standard for what everyone else can say.

I think you're kinda missing the point and hyperboling the suggestion somewhat; I know the OP mentions vulgar language but it's put in the context of harassment and hate speech. It's not about a minority of morally self righteous who object to a bit of cursing - considering the number of military and ex-military involved in the Battletech community I don't think you'll see that many who would blush at the odd swear word, or many swear words for that manner. And yes, for those that don't like it there would always be the mute/ignore/profinity filter options, every MMO game has them so I doubt MWO will be any different. Conversational humour and risque subjects are fine for the most part, although knowing your audience and actually being mature about knowing what is and what isn't appropriate to discuss with certain people comes into that.

In my WoW guild our vent chat would often be filled with subject matter or language which I'm sure would probably cause you to blush, but that was OK because we all knew each other, we knew what each of us deemed unacceptable (which wasn't much tbh) and it was amongst us - we did not then have those same boundaries in open public chat channels because that would be inappropriate.

It's like going to the loo in front of your missus; just because you're both comfortable with normal bodily functions doesn't mean it's acceptable to go out and take a cr*p in the street.

Listen to the link the OP put up or take a look at these for the kind of things that should be policed - spot of racism and profanity before you click guys. (kinda difficult to find good examples on youtube search but I'm sure there are many)

TL;DR - IMO it's NOT THE LANGUAGE that's offensive, it's the attitude/rascism/bullying/harassment

Edited by Runz, 27 April 2012 - 12:15 AM.

[StaIker]

I honestly just don't care about "offensive" language. Use the mute/ignore button if it's a problem to you personally, leave everyone else alone.

[Karl Streiger]

Where is the border...between rollplay and real life?
Should i bee polite to a Liao Warrior or Snake - because they got hurt when i curse them?