36 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Hodo, on 30 October 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

Not talking about Streaks, and those arent due out for at least 2 years.

Roland,

Tell me how?

SRM2- 5 damage spread out. 1 ton, cycle time 4sec.
SRM4- 10 damage spread out. 2 tons, cycle time 4 sec.
SRM6- 15 damage spread out. 3 tons cycle time 4 sec

Highest damage to weight ratio huh?

Medium laser 1 ton 5 damage cycle time 3s.
Small Laser .5 ton, 3 damage cycle time 2.25s

So looks like the Medium laser will out damage a SRM2, and even a SRM4.

And lets not even consider 3 Med Lasers in the place of a SRM6.

So your myth about them being the highest damage per ton system in game is.... well BUSTED!

No, you are mistaken. Anyone who actually uses SRM's knows this. I will explain.

An SRM 2 roughly compares to a medium laser... no one really uses the 2's, since the limited number of missile slots generally means you're putting on the bigger ones, but it provides the easiest comparison to medium lasers to see the differences.

The SRM2 actually has a better cycle time than the Medium Laser, at 3.5 seconds. The medium lasers has a cycle time of 3 seconds, but it also has a discharge time of 1 second, giving it a total recycle of 4 (the same as the SRM). You missed this in your analysis. Somewhat pointless though, as most folks will use the 4's (at 3.75 seconds, only slightly better) or the 6's (with an equal recycle time).

In terms of weight, both the SRM2 and the Medium laser have a weight of 1.

However, in terms of heat, the SRM generates only 2 points of heat, while the medium laser generates 4... that's TWICE as much heat. This means that when you start loading the weapons into actual loadouts, the medium lasers start to necessitate a lot of heat sinks to continue using them effectively.

If we look at a more realistic comparison, using SRM6's, the difference becomes even more dramatic.

SRM6:
Weight - 3 Tons
Damage - 15
Heat - 4 (Note, the heat efficiency of the 6 is even BETTER than the 2.)
Hardpoint - 1
Slots - 2

In order to generate this same damage output using medium lasers, you need 3... this gives us:
Medium Lasers
Weight - 3
Damage - 15
Heat - 12 (THREE times as much as the SRM's)
Hardpoints - 3
Slots - 2

As you can see, the heat efficiency is terrible by comparison. This means that you need to dedicate additional tonnage to heat sinks. While the SRM's require ammo, a single ton gives you 100 rounds, which goes quite a ways.

Additionally, on top of all of that, the SRM's, while spreading some (although when used correctly at point blank range, they can crush a single panel pretty well) also have the advantage of not needing to be held on target. They can be fired, and then you can immediately turn away from the target to soak damage.. the medium laser needs to be held on target for a full second in order to do its full damage to that location.

Finally... this is being compared to the medium laser, which is also one of the single most efficient weapons in the entire game. The fact that the SRM is even being compared to the medium laser (much less actually coming out ahead of it in many ways) clearly illustrates that it does not need to be buffed.

[Ravensol]

i think the srm is fine wrong name since they arn't missles they are rockets but the damage is fine the spred is alittle wonky but the issue i have is i dont like the hit the fire button .5-2 seconds later they go off. at first i thought it was lag but i wasn't seeing it when i fired my gaus or my lasers just the srm. Worse part the delay wasn't a constant 1second it varied.

[Paladin1]

Ornonge, on 30 October 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

The OP is talking about buffing SRM's not the streak version, imo. Would make no sense to buff streaks since they are skipping out on firepower for a guidance system.

Sorry, but this is incorrect. SSRMs and SRMs use the same sized warhead. The difference (the guidance system) is represented by the increased tonnage of the launcher and the limited number of launch tubes.

[wildfyre010]

SRMs are a niche weapon, and they are only really useful at very short ranges (well inside their listed maximum range, given travel time and spread), but they are exceedingly deadly when used properly. SRM6 delivers, by far, the best damage efficiency (in terms of tonnage) in the game.

They do not need to be buffed. They are very good in the correct configuration already. If anything, when the streak SRM6 is available, we are likely to see calls for nerfs.

[Paladin1]

I agree that the SRM is a great weapon, but the idea that SRMs and LRMs should be set at a 2:1 damage ratio is correct. Getting too close to a SRM boat SHOULD hurt and hurt badly.

As for SSRM6 packs, don't look for them in the IS until 3058 or thereabouts. Clan SSRM launchers are a whole different level of pain though and not something that I'm looking forward to facing.

[Xandralkus]

Let's instead nerf LRM's in line with SRMs.

[wildfyre010]

It's called an Anti-Missile System. Correctly used, it's all the counter you need for LRMs.

[Sayyid]

Ravensol, on 30 October 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

i think the srm is fine wrong name since they arn't missles they are rockets but the damage is fine the spred is alittle wonky but the issue i have is i dont like the hit the fire button .5-2 seconds later they go off. at first i thought it was lag but i wasn't seeing it when i fired my gaus or my lasers just the srm. Worse part the delay wasn't a constant 1second it varied.

This is so true and an issue.

Paladin1, on 30 October 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

I agree that the SRM is a great weapon, but the idea that SRMs and LRMs should be set at a 2:1 damage ratio is correct. Getting too close to a SRM boat SHOULD hurt and hurt badly.

As for SSRM6 packs, don't look for them in the IS until 3058 or thereabouts. Clan SSRM launchers are a whole different level of pain though and not something that I'm looking forward to facing.

I know the SRM Carrier tank in the TT is down right nasty, it can destroy a light or a medium in one volley.
10 SRM6s

Xandralkus, on 30 October 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Let's instead nerf LRM's in line with SRMs.

They tried, LRMs were near useless due to the double armor of the base mechs.

[gregsolidus]

The only problem would be boating them. I still remember the one shotting Awesome hoards...

[Paladin1]

Sayyid, on 30 October 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

I know the SRM Carrier tank in the TT is down right nasty, it can destroy a light or a medium in one volley.
10 SRM6s

Trust me, I've seen Heavies and Assaults completely demolished by those things.

Most painful ambush I've ever seen was a Daishi that got ambushed in a city by two Demolisher tanks and two SRM carriers stacked in a parking garage during the Clan Invasion. The Demolishers hit both legs, stripping the armor and almost destroying them outright, then the SRM carriers unloaded at cockpit level and vaporized what was left. That was one seriously pissed off Clanner.

[Wispsy]

Yes considering they spread pretty much as lrms except you need to aim them and already be right next to the target I think a damage boost at least up to 3.5 would make them usable again. I for one never use them and consider them completely useless as the spread is so wide you might as well take anything else and actually hit where you aim (hit detection issues aside) and kill something instead of blasting off some useless arm armour as you shoot it cleanly in the back from point blank range. At least if the damage is buffed it makes them viable to put on individual mechs instead of boating them out being the only option to even have a chance at doing well with them.

[Corvus Antaka]

I agree. Why bother with SRMS at all? The AC/20 vs the gauss is in a similar situation - with the ac/20 you sacrifice range and heat for a little extra damage.

with srms you sacrifice range, heat & locking ability.

wepaons gimped by range need other advantages, and we are missing that nice rock/paper/scissors effect to some degree.

[Myrenous]

I dont see any need to buff them, 2 6 packs already pack an amazing punch and you you get behind someone .. its game over, giving them a damage buff would tip the balance and make them OP. I have a SRM6 A1 boat and altho it may run a little on the hot side if i get behind someone .. they either die or the limbs fly off, its scary enought as it is i couldnt imagine how much damage an alpha at 4 point per head would do even with the current spread thats 144 points over the back side.. you would one shot everything in the game

[Noth]

Sayyid, on 30 October 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

They tried, LRMs were near useless due to the double armor of the base mechs.

Actually there was a point that they were fine. Minimal complaints about OPness, and minimal complaints about uselessness. They served their purpose as a fire support weapon and felt useful. They then got a buff to where they are now and it's been almost non stop threads about them being OP. They need to revert the last buff and maybe even nerf them slightly due to how well TAG buffs them.

[AC Rimak]

Are you serious, SRMs right now are very good, not too OP, but they can rip enemy mech in shreds in no time if used correctly.

[Tickdoff Tank]

I think they could tighten the spread on the SRMs a bit more, especially at longer ranges. At around 175m the spread is a bit too wide, IMO. If the SRMs stopped spreading at a certain range I think they would be perfect.

edit: I just think the "Short range missles" have a bit too short of an effective range. Not meaning 270m, that is fine, just that the spread effectively reduces that range further. Some spread is needed, I just think it is a little too much right now.

Edited by Tickdoff Tank, 02 November 2012 - 07:55 AM.

[ExAstris]

As numerous people have noted already, SRMs do not need a damage increase, they are currently one of the best weapons in the game. The only problem with their current handling is that they are nearly useless beyond 50m due to their attrocious spread. Now, it should definitely not go back to the super tight clustering that it use to be several months ago, but the maximum spread should not be nearly as bad as it is now. This will make SRMs fairly useful at their intended ranges, and still the best raw damage dealing weapon for point blank range against slow/immobilized targets.

Notions of 'normalizing' SRM damage to LRM damage by adherence to the original TT values is an antiquated notion. The mechanics here are different, thus the appropriate balance numbers are different. SRMs and LRMs behavior, except the SRM spread from 50m-270m, is near spot on, its the energy/ballistic weapons that still have all the balance problems.