34 replies to this topic

[warner2]

Garth Erlam, on 04 April 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

I was alluding to 'Pop-tarting' being an matter of not inconsequential anger.

I think simply playing first person perspective will go a long way to addressing that. Pop-tarting (not to be confused with fighting at range, hopefully) was far more common in third-person perspective leagues like MWL than first-person like NBT.

[CeeKay Boques]

warner__, on 04 April 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

I think simply playing first person perspective will go a long way to addressing that. Pop-tarting (not to be confused with fighting at range, hopefully) was far more common in third-person perspective leagues like MWL than first-person like NBT.

It was still pretty common in NBT, pop tarting just wasn't "the only game in town". Sometimes you didn't have JJ capable mechs available. I include jumping from behind a mountain, while flying sideways 200m, as "pop tarting". I'm not saying it didn't take skill, you had to be fast, hell, we worked on it constantly, but still the same thing as straight up and down BS; jumping from cover to cover, a "Jump centric" tactic. Was hill humping any better though? At some point, the range game involves popping out from behind cover, then getting back in it.

[warner2]

Technoviking, on 04 April 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

At some point, the range game involves popping out from behind cover, then getting back in it.

People did that because it was a viable tactic and it worked, but as you've said, not the only one. I think that's the key, there must be alternatives, and a kind of rock/paper/scissors dynamic.

To be honest I'm starting to have some faith now as more of this game gets revealed, so I'm not seeing much chance of the game being horribly unbalanced in favour of one style of play, and even if it is, the nature of it means that these problems can be addressed if desired through patching.

[Grimm Gunn]

@ SUSKIS...
WE ALL KNOW THERE AE TORSO- COCKPIT MECHS.. THE JUGERMECH IS A PRIME EXAMPLE,, WE JUST DONT SEE THEM IN THE MWO,,YET

[That Guy]

WithSilentWings, on 04 April 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

You're missing the point. It's not that we can't adapt to change, it's that everyone standing as far away from each other as possible, popping up and shooting a giant volley that kills in one shot is INCREDIBLY BORING compared to the way the game could work if we don't introduce such technology. I am not sure if you played Battletech in the years before the Mechwarrior games, but the Clans and the later tech did not exist, which lead to more drawn out battles with more "in your face" fighting. I can totally understand why that would make a better "Mechwarrior" experience vs essentially turning it in to any other FPS game out there.

you are missing the point. all those things have nothing to do with the tech, but the game its self (in that case MW4). it had see through everything radar, instant pin point accuracy and ridiculously slow JJ, allowing for effective pop-tarting. MWO has already addressed most of those issues with LOS sensors, weapon convergence, arm and torso weapons and non-instantaneous damage weapons/ballistic travel time. and i am quite sure that PGI will have a good solution for jump jets

[Zudjiian]

Warner is right, pop tarting was a reasonable tactic. As a commander you make the fight that you want. Its up to Commanders to get around stalemates. Pop tarting from a distance on both sides means everyone brought the same stuff, time for a tactic change not a load out change. As for the nuke wars, weeell lets just hope we can limit what goes into a server.

[Seabear]

What to be available at the start of the game will be the standard tech of 3025 with a few elements of the advanced tech (probaly quite restricted) becoming availble to certain house units as the timeline progresses. Most of us will most likely gain access to advanced systems through salvage as the game proceeds toward the introduction of the clans. I would not be surprised if some of the border warfare we will experience might have to do with the "liberation" of certain weapons system .

I would love to see the tech restricted to the house that developed it at first. Gives one something to fight for. Such a restricton would make alliences and caombat a great deal more meaningful.

[Insidious Johnson]

Are we really comparing real and old apples to quasi vaporware oranges again? What was, was. What will be, will be.

[Titus Pullo XIII]

"What it is, what it shall be, what it was."

[Tyzh]

Insidious Johnson, on 05 April 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Are we really comparing real and old apples to quasi vaporware oranges again? What was, was. What will be, will be.

What else is there to compare it to?
It's hardly vaporware.
What makes your tautologies any more meaningful than what you insist is fruitless (HA GET IT?) comparison, exactly?

[Jawbreaker6]

Years ago, when I was a team sergeant in the army, my platoon leader, a pimply kid from Ohio, admitted to being a BT fan after seeing Warrior's Riposte laying next to my MG mount. It lead into a long coversation about the game and its core concepts as seen from a history major's perspective.

The game is merely a sci-fi spin-off of a feudilistic society that that fights its battles by way of up-close man to man combat. Neither side has a distinct advantage weapon wise and the only thing that carries the field is mass. The more tons of armor you wear, the more likely you are to live.
Hence heat
Hence low magazine counts for big bore weapons.

For me, a guy that's been around since Christ was a corpral, the level 2 and level 3 weapons changed the dynamic of the game, but in all fairness, level 2 and 3 saw the introduction of the clans and battalion sized table top battles where out-ranging and out-weighing the other side made all the difference.

That said: The game is shaping itself into a lance on lance type of game that very closely resembles Good Ol BT version 1.0 where level one tech, a roll of bailing wire and some foul language was all that you had to conduct war with.

There in lies the rub: the longer range weapons will turn the game into a snipe fest or a land-pig brawl where assaults rule the land.

What it should be is about information, speed, motivation and a lot of luck.

Just an old timers point of view.

[Dr Roshima]

It´s working in MWLL. Why it shoudnt work in MWO? Dont be a *****...

[carl kerensky]

Garth Erlam, on 04 April 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

I can tell you right now that David is a master of balance, and there's no way we'll have the hilarious stand-off wars of yesteryear. Except for Jenner bait Catapults firing from afar.

Yaaaa....just what I was hoping to hear...

+1

[Solis Obscuri]

Jawbreaker6, on 05 April 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Years ago, when I was a team sergeant in the army, my platoon leader, a pimply kid from Ohio, admitted to being a BT fan after seeing Warrior's Riposte laying next to my MG mount. It lead into a long coversation about the game and its core concepts as seen from a history major's perspective.

The game is merely a sci-fi spin-off of a feudilistic society that that fights its battles by way of up-close man to man combat. Neither side has a distinct advantage weapon wise and the only thing that carries the field is mass. The more tons of armor you wear, the more likely you are to live.
Hence heat
Hence low magazine counts for big bore weapons.

For me, a guy that's been around since Christ was a corpral, the level 2 and level 3 weapons changed the dynamic of the game, but in all fairness, level 2 and 3 saw the introduction of the clans and battalion sized table top battles where out-ranging and out-weighing the other side made all the difference.

That said: The game is shaping itself into a lance on lance type of game that very closely resembles Good Ol BT version 1.0 where level one tech, a roll of bailing wire and some foul language was all that you had to conduct war with.

There in lies the rub: the longer range weapons will turn the game into a snipe fest or a land-pig brawl where assaults rule the land.

What it should be is about information, speed, motivation and a lot of luck.

Just an old timers point of view.

Nicely put.

[Solis Obscuri]

Romeox, on 05 April 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

It´s working in MWLL. Why it shoudnt work in MWO? Dont be a *****...

MWLL is set further up the timeline, and I believe it's also the only "sim" style MW game yet to include combined arms - vehicles, power-armored infantry, and aerospace assets in addition to battlemechs. That changes the nature of what's valuable in a fight, since all the gauss rifles in the world won't help you much if you get swarmed by infantry, and they aren't great for shooting down jets doing strafing runs over you. This makes "balanced" 'mech loadouts more useful if you expect to be self-sufficient, or requires specialized loadouts to at least have some support. (And aren't the I.S. 'mechs restricted to variants, not a free-for-all 'mechlab?)