439 replies to this topic

[Codius Dakanius]

I feel that this will be an absoluty perfect system.

[DarkTreader]

Markocius, on 04 April 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Ok, so Hardpoints? Really? We are going to get stuck with the mechanic that MicroShaft hoisted on us and use Hardpoints?

If this is the ONLY that comes along that I am not happy with, then I'll stomach it. However, I am not happy with this idea. One of the things I loved about the Table Top, and MechWarrior 3 was you could strip down a mech, put the weapons on there you want, and go to town!

MicroShaft limited the possible combinations we could have with a mech, by implementing this "Hardpoint" system, and I more than just loathed it. I stopped play MW4 and any Mech Game that MicroShaft put out for MechWarrior.

This limits the number of possible setups a person can make with a Mech. Not to mention, everyone person you go up against is going to know a basic idea of what your personal loadout is going to be. Such as, "Ohh, he's in a Raven, I bet he's packin' Missles and Lasers."

Thanks,
Marko

Um... that's kinda the point, natch. You roll into a battlefield and your scanner picks up an RVN-3L - you know that their stock loadout is going to be 1xSRM6, 2xMLas, and a bucketload of EWAR stuff. You see a Marauder and it cons as a MAD-3R, you know that their stock loadout is going to be 2xPPC, 2xMLas, 1xAC/5.

These things do not change.

This system makes a LOT of sense. It keeps people from making the equivalent of a FrankenMech, and from running the most ridiculous loadouts ever (see most of the 'Winning!' loadouts from MW3 or 4). This keeps it as close to canon as possible, all while allowing a wide range of personalization.

Hell, even the hypothetical MechLab view (assuming it is similar to what Paul showed... but with better gfx) looks strikingly similar to a TT BattleMech sheet. That says they've put a LOT of effort into this.

So...

[Aegis Kleais]

From what I understand I gotta say I love the MechLab.

I absolutely hated the idea of being able to throw any weapon onto any location that could afford the space. It took away from the personality of the Mech Chassis. Doing so just makes Mech differ by their tonnage value.

With the more restrictions in place, only certain weapons can be equipped (would LOVE it if the models changed though, ie an AC10 on the Atlas' hip would show an AC10 model rather than AC20) This means that a chassis (like the Novacat) can excel and be known for it's energy-based preference. But you might be able to find a variant that modifies the slots and hardpoints to better suit what equipment you want.

In the event the chassis or its variants do not, then you look for another or wait until omnimech technology comes along.

I think this lab will require keen crafting, but more that suffice for a usable and not overly loose Mechlab.

[CeeKay Boques]

Ugh, the fact they listen to us and give us what we ask for scares me.

It means I have to monitor the forums every day so you guys don't ask for something horrible!

[karish]

ok i have issues with you cant change the weapon types when there are variants that remove autocannons and put energy weapons (ahem hunchback and swayback) you remove the AC20 for 8 ML and there is a Dev that loves to blow himself up because of overheating (hmmmm where is that post at) there is a Jenner that removes all weapons and installs a LL the JR7-A soooooooo how are you going to work these variants that do change balistic for energy weapons?

[renegade mitchell]

Hardpoint system is what I was hoping for all along. Nice to see the Devs take this approach for mechlab.

[CeeKay Boques]

karish, on 04 April 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

ok i have issues with you cant change the weapon types when there are variants that remove autocannons and put energy weapons (ahem hunchback and swayback) you remove the AC20 for 8 ML and there is a Dev that loves to blow himself up because of overheating (hmmmm where is that post at) there is a Jenner that removes all weapons and installs a LL the JR7-A soooooooo how are you going to work these variants that do change balistic for energy weapons?

That Varient is customizable? So you get the Swayback Varient, you now have an energy slot there. Yes you own 2 HBack at this point.

[Salesninja]

Wow! Seeing this just makes me want to play now, not that I didn't already want to but yeah...today!

[Stahlseele]

Quote

Note: Selecting bright pink as any colour level results in Paul’s weapon systems automatically locking on to your ‘Mech whether visible or not. Just a heads up.

Oh how i hope this actually works ^^

[3Xtr3m3]

Note: Selecting bright pink as any colour level results in Paul’s weapon systems automatically locking on to your ‘Mech whether visible or not. Just a heads up.


I am now thinking we are going to see like a million bright pink mechs on opening day......
AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT PAUL!!!!

[Dirk Le Daring]

This is a great looking system

I would have only one request......The correct spelling for Armour and Colour. In the pics it is armor, in the dialogue it is armour. Nothing against our American friends, but it would be a nice change.

[Gozer]

I like how it seems like the frame and engine are going to be variant dependant but armor and guns can be adjusted.

So pretty much what I thought they'd do.

[Soviet Alex]

I like it. Too restrictive for some posters & not restrictive enough for others means it strikes the right balance. And it looks like the MW4 mechlab & Heavy Metal Pro had a baby. Having to buy different variants to get different flavour hardpoints feeds back into the XP trees, where you needed to master 3 variants to unlock the Elite tiers (see Dev-Blog 4). It's now clear that you won't be able to buy those 3 variants & customize them into the best one. You'll have to use & gain XP in 3 potentially very different variants. This is going to be fun!

[GunGrave666]

it sounds so much like mechwarrior 4 per customization, mechwarrior 3 seemed more flexible i like the idea of cost per change to the mech

[Brakkyn]

I can go for this. It actually sounds really good.

[Sporkosophy]

Technoviking, on 04 April 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

Ugh, the fact they listen to us and give us what we ask for scares me.

It means I have to monitor the forums every day so you guys don't ask for something horrible!

Paul already shot down the best of ideas.

[Victor Morson]

Markocius, on 04 April 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Ok, so Hardpoints? Really? We are going to get stuck with the mechanic that MicroShaft hoisted on us and use Hardpoints?

If this is the ONLY that comes along that I am not happy with, then I'll stomach it. However, I am not happy with this idea. One of the things I loved about the Table Top, and MechWarrior 3 was you could strip down a mech, put the weapons on there you want, and go to town!

Hard points were the best thing to happen to MechWarrior. For one, while people complain about later day boating, boating really WAS a problem in the days before slots. For two, this reduced all 'mechs to basically different graphical skins, if they were in a similar weight class. There was no reason for the Catapult to feel like a support fire 'mech because you could just as easily slap on UAC20s and it would perform similar to any 65 tonner.

Honestly I've felt that CBT should undergo a reboot for a while now to steam line the combat systems (not utterly destroy them like the Dark Age disaster) and incorporate slots into the official build rules as a way to set 'mechs further apart. The "mount anything, anywhere" aspect of the game ironically limits creativity, because you don't need to figure out ways to get the most out of any given unit - but rather, just what weapon you like and how many times you can stick it on there.

Long story short: Weapon hardpoints were the best idea to happen to MechWarrior, and frankly, BattleTech in general. The flaws in MW4's mech creation system had to do with the lack of assigning criticals or gear into slots.

Edited by Victor Morson, 04 April 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[Belial]

GunGrave666, on 04 April 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

it sounds so much like mechwarrior 4 per customization, mechwarrior 3 seemed more flexible i like the idea of cost per change to the mech

But keep in mind that MW4 at least had a good intention in trying to keep the uniqueness of each chassis. In straight-up tabletop, one 35-ton 'Mech was really no different than another since both had the exact same criticals, weight and completely blank spaces that could hold any weapon. You could outfit a Raven and a Wolfhound the exact same way, just change the name. This system proposed by the devs keeps the overall look of tabletop (even has the same critical slots system, it seems) but keeps 'Mechs respectful to their canon variants, yet still allows change.

[Belial]

karish, on 04 April 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

ok i have issues with you cant change the weapon types when there are variants that remove autocannons and put energy weapons (ahem hunchback and swayback) you remove the AC20 for 8 ML and there is a Dev that loves to blow himself up because of overheating (hmmmm where is that post at) there is a Jenner that removes all weapons and installs a LL the JR7-A soooooooo how are you going to work these variants that do change balistic for energy weapons?

Sorry for double post, happened to see this one after the fact.

In answer to your query, the devs clearly stated that customization would be variant and chassis specific. The ballistic hardpoints that exist on a standard Hunchback will likely be different than those in the same location on a Swayback design.

[Hao Yu]

Victor Morson, on 04 April 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Honestly I've felt that CBT should undergo a reboot for a while now to steam line the combat systems (not utterly destroy them like the Dark Age disaster) and incorporate slots into the official build rules as a way to set 'mechs further apart. The "mount anything, anywhere" aspect of the game ironically limits creativity, because you don't need to figure out ways to get the most out of any given unit - but rather, just what weapon you like and how many times you can stick it on there.

I've felt that Classic Battletech needed a rules rewrite for a long, long time. And I completely agree with the creativity limitation. The sheer versatility is why Omnimechs were so powerful. Being able to freely change everything but your chassis on a standard mech seriously blurs that line.