439 replies to this topic

[CaveMan]

Punisher_1, on 05 April 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

But We also know that it has to have depth or people will not pay nor will they play for long run.

It seems to me a lot of people stopped reading when they saw the word "hardpoint" and just assumed it was the MW4 mechlab all over again.

The system as described sounds like it's got plenty of depth. It has enough restriction to prevent people from throwing 24 medium lasers on a chassis and calling it good, but it is also clearly rooted in TT rules. 12 critical slots in a section, "roll again" boxes and everything. And there are good, lore-based arguments for type restrictions on weapon mounts too. (Need for installing ammunition feed systems, insulation and power/coolant lines for energy weapons, etc.)

(And for the record, the poster you're defending has already established he doesn't care about BT lore. He wants his ubermech and said as much.)

[DarkTreader]

... good god, people. The devs are making a new MechWarrior game. FOR US. And yet there are people throwing a temper tantrum like some kind of spoiled child.

I direct you all to this:
http://journal.neilg...ent-issues.html

It explains exactly why, if you don't like what they're doing and feel the need to call the WHAAAAAAAAAAmbulance, the rest of us would prefer you ****.

[EDMW CSN]

SmoesHammer, on 05 April 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Does this mean that when (if) omnimechs arrive then they will be cheaper to change but heavier tonnage per slot etc?

Omni-Mechs are far easier to change, but hell on maintenance cost. Heck most of your House techs will be crying and overworking themselves trying to understand such an advanced piece of tech, yet alone keep it in working condition.

Maintaining Clan Tech weapons would look like child's place in comparison to keeping a Timber Wolf running.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 05 April 2012 - 08:16 AM.

[Markocius]

DarkTreader, on 04 April 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Um... that's kinda the point, natch. You roll into a battlefield and your scanner picks up an RVN-3L - you know that their stock loadout is going to be 1xSRM6, 2xMLas, and a bucketload of EWAR stuff. You see a Marauder and it cons as a MAD-3R, you know that their stock loadout is going to be 2xPPC, 2xMLas, 1xAC/5.

These things do not change.

This system makes a LOT of sense. It keeps people from making the equivalent of a FrankenMech, and from running the most ridiculous loadouts ever (see most of the 'Winning!' loadouts from MW3 or 4). This keeps it as close to canon as possible, all while allowing a wide range of personalization.

Hell, even the hypothetical MechLab view (assuming it is similar to what Paul showed... but with better gfx) looks strikingly similar to a TT BattleMech sheet. That says they've put a LOT of effort into this.

So...

Thanks for the Reply,

However, the point I was trying to make, is that the Hardpoint System is something from MechWarrior 4, and not "Canon" to the Table Top game. I liked being able to take a mech, any mech, and optimize for my style of play.

Now, I do like the other aspects of the customization. Paint Schemes, logos, and these "Modules" which will make a mech more personalized than they would normally be.

I also understand the need for Balance. And I am all for it. What I am not for is being pigeon holed into using the exact same type of weapon for something I could see as more of a possible benefit. For an example from my Table Top games, I used to play against a guy that was heavy into energy weapons, I would drop a Medium Laser, and the heat sinks to cover it, and install a SRM-2 with Inferno rounds on one or two 'mechs. This would in turn create a much bigger problem for my opponent, and require him to rethink his attacks.

With the Hardpoint system, I can no longer make that change. If it doesn't have a Missile Hardpoint, I can't load an Inferno rack.

Thank you for your input.

Marko

[EDMW CSN]

Markocius, on 05 April 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

Thanks for the Reply, However, the point I was trying to make, is that the Hardpoint System is something from MechWarrior 4, and not "Canon" to the Table Top game. I liked being able to take a mech, any mech, and optimize for my style of play. Now, I do like the other aspects of the customization. Paint Schemes, logos, and these "Modules" which will make a mech more personalized than they would normally be. I also understand the need for Balance. And I am all for it. What I am not for is being pigeon holed into using the exact same type of weapon for something I could see as more of a possible benefit. For an example from my Table Top games, I used to play against a guy that was heavy into energy weapons, I would drop a Medium Laser, and the heat sinks to cover it, and install a SRM-2 with Inferno rounds on one or two 'mechs. This would in turn create a much bigger problem for my opponent, and require him to rethink his attacks. With the Hardpoint system, I can no longer make that change. If it doesn't have a Missile Hardpoint, I can't load an Inferno rack. Thank you for your input. Marko

Well you can.
If your faction unit / merc units occupies a planet with a Mech Factory.
Then you can do major Class E and Class F refits which let's you pretty much the whole thing from scratch.

Although for your request, it should be doable with a Class C to D refit.

Well accordingly to the fluff anyway which PGI may or make not consider doing so.
Otherwise you just have to do basic field refits. ;f

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 05 April 2012 - 08:34 AM.

[KageRyuu]

Don't know about the rest of you but I don't care for the "hard point" idea which was used in MW4 Mercs, and sucked. I'd prefer to just use the crit slot system like in the table top seeing as it offers even more versatility of design than tacking on a horrible system held over from perhaps the worst MechWarrior game in the franchise.

Edited by KageRyuu, 05 April 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[Konrad]

I have to laugh at some of the comments on here from people that clearly are fans of MW4 + but aren't really familiar with the Battletech universe.

It's also a bit scary as well, because clearly those people's voices are being heard by the design team and they are listening to them!

As a result us slightly older fans (The ones that have been playing since "The Crescent Hawks Inception" and tabletop have to constantly monitor these forums so the younger fans don't get all the grease as it were...

Don't make me come down to International Village and tell you guys off in person! (Piranha games)

Edited by Konrad, 05 April 2012 - 08:47 AM.

[CaveMan]

Markocius, on 05 April 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

With the Hardpoint system, I can no longer make that change. If it doesn't have a Missile Hardpoint, I can't load an Inferno rack.

So use a different 'Mech that has the weapons you want. The lore doesn't support people swapping out equipment all willy-nilly.

[EDMW CSN]

Well this is the small portion of the refitting rules as per Strat Ops.
Of course people can choose to ignore it as optional but I feel it makes more sense in both fluff and a fall between the rules

Something PGI is trying to do.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 05 April 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[Wyzak]

SmoesHammer, on 05 April 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Does this mean that when (if) omnimechs arrive then they will be cheaper to change but heavier tonnage per slot etc?

I think it would be more accurate to say omni technology will cost the same to change, have the same weight, but the parts, maintenance, and initial chassis cost would be insanely high. Like purchasing x assault mech in MW4:Mercs end of game for 40,000,000 c-bills - there's only a marginal benefit to it in terms of unique load-out, but you have 40,000,000 c-bills sitting around doing nothing so you might as well...

[Kael Tropheus]

An omni-mech should be fairly cheap if anythign to change out. There is no additional engineering or design work that needs to be done as the mechs are designed with changing out weapons in the first place unlike an IS mech that has to be re-engineered and rigged up. The cost on omni-mechs should be insanely high to repair and maintain the mech for an IS pilot, however. It was years after the initial invasion that mechanics with any skill with clan equipment became available to the IS. A IS merc unit with multiple clan mechs would go bankrupt trying to maintain them, much less try to repair them. A tech skilled in clan stuff could ask whatever he wanted for salary and expect to get it too.

Hopefully IS will not have access to clan tech for awhile, let alone to usable chassis. That should be far in the future and would have to be a major consideration for any merc unit since that pilot is going to need more than his or her fair share of any payouts to keep it running.

It will be interesting to see how the clans handle money and repair costs since money isnt something they like to deal with. Spending honor would be silly i think.

Another thing I noticed in this thread. Someone said something about controlling a planet and its factory. The impression I got so far is you are pretty much only on a planet when fighting. Otherwise you are in some kind of limbo looking for a contract. I dont think anyone will "control" control a planet. It still belongs to a House, you just got the contract to take it or defend it. I dont think any character will be there full time. Plus with the cost of ongoing maintenance and repairs(military stuff breaks for no reason all the time even if no one was messing with it, ask the anyone in the military) you arent going to want to sit still anyway. Besides, there arent any factories on borderworlds, they would be too important and thus not be borderworlds. Any factory world would have at least a battalion of house mechs guarding it in addition to private/corporate security, they are too precious of a resource to ignore.

Edited by Kael Tropheus, 05 April 2012 - 10:34 AM.

[Slazer]

Hmm interesting i don't remember in the Tabletop to be limited by hard points of specific type like Energy or AC. My Ac variants only need the case spot in the same or neighbouring Area.

[CloudCobra]

I like it so far; i didn't like the hardpoint system when i first played MW4 after so much freedom in 2 &3 that said i didn't play online with those. When i did in MW4 the "boats" killed it in that one even with the restrictive mech lab. I think with the focus on online play this type of system as well as the variant thing was inevitable. The other thing is when i started playing MW3 and the game books and stuff mentioned omnimechs i was like *** is that you can load any battlemech anyway you want. This makes omnimech tech worth playing.

[AlanEsh]

You are not a mech factory.

You are a mech pilot.

You drive what you are given or buy from ... mech factories.

If your current manufacturer isn't giving you the hard point configuration you want with their available variants, seek out a different manufacturer.

You don't have enough money or influence to convince a manufacturer to redesign their variants or create new ones.

You are a mech pilot.

Thanks for your time!

[CaveMan]

Angelicon, on 05 April 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

You are not a mech factory.
...

It won't let me "like" this more than once

[AlanEsh]

CaveMan, on 05 April 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

It won't let me "like" this more than once

Feel free to seek out all of my posts on all subjects and "like" them if it will help

[Mchawkeye]

Konrad, on 05 April 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

I have to laugh at some of the comments on here from people that clearly are fans of MW4 + but aren't really familiar with the Battletech universe.

It's also a bit scary as well, because clearly those people's voices are being heard by the design team and they are listening to them!

As a result us slightly older fans (The ones that have been playing since "The Crescent Hawks Inception" and tabletop have to constantly monitor these forums so the younger fans don't get all the grease as it were...

Don't make me come down to International Village and tell you guys off in person! (Piranha games)

Wow.

There is so much wrong with this post it makes my soul bleed.

[Konrad]

Mchawkeye, on 05 April 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Wow.

There is so much wrong with this post it makes my soul bleed.

You have no Soul.

[Mchawkeye]

Konrad, on 05 April 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

You have no Soul.

Valid...but you get the point.

[HIemfire]

GrandKlaive, on 05 April 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

How will it work when the clans and then inner sphere switch to the C.A.S.E modular system? Will you be able to have an inventory in which to keep systems you bought and change out when needed?

C.A.S.E (Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment): http://www.sarna.net/wiki/CASE

OmniMech (The Mech type which is fully modular, limited only by available space.): http://www.sarna.net/wiki/OmniMech

And the "Inventory" was already covered if you actually read all the way through the blog.