21 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Flipping through my tech manuals (You know if I read in school like I do now I'd be a flipping rocket scientist..) and in reading the various fluff pieces for each Mech, something dawned on me... "These Mechs were designed to do more than battle other Mechs!"... No duh eh?

Seriously though... much of the fluff explains particular nuances of specific Mechs, their load-outs and design purposes. Some were intended to be antiaircraft platforms (Rifleman) Anti-personal (Firestarter) etc..etc..

This got me to thinking... A lot of the Mechs and their load-outs are essentially useless without ground troops, armor and aerospace fighters. Small lasers... machine guns... small caliber ACs and SRMs and flamers to a smaller degree are pretty much wasted critical slots without something other than Mechs to shoot at...

While I agree we are here to shoot each other (in big stompy Mechs)... At some point much further down the road, likely after the Clans make their grand appearance, would it make sense to give thought to bringing in armor, infantry units and aerospace to flesh out the battle field?

... Of would it be best to keep this rodeo closed to just ponies?

Edited by DaZur, 29 April 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[Karyudo ds]

Probably with the Rifleman being an anti-aircraft mech...it's stats didn't support the fluff in the least. The fluff more than likely simply ripped off Macross in which that's what the Defender did specifically. Though I agree, many loadouts work great on non-mechs. I think there's been vague mention of non-mech units, at least artillery.

I don't mind only playing mechs but I would love to see non-mech targets on the field to shoot at. More so if they were dangerous. Most MW games make tanks etc so useless.

[Naughtyboy]

there actually are mechs slated for many diffrent roles antiaircraft duty, anti personel (plenty MGs or small lasers), when the Clans arrived and their nasty elementals the need for even tougher anti personel mechs was obvious adding smallpulselasers , Some Clans already have mechs made for the purpose of keeping infantery at bay like the Piranha.

[William Petersen]

DaZur, on 29 April 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

This got me to thinking... A lot of the Mechs and their load-outs are essentially useless without ground troops, armor and aerospace fighters. Small lasers... machine guns... small caliber ACs and SRMs and flamers to a smaller degree are pretty much wasted critical slots without something other than Mechs to shoot at...

The first and last bolded weapons are excellent crit-seekers. The small caliber ACs, IMO, are good weapons to bring to bear against light mechs at extreme ranges. Lights don't carry much armour, so the AC2 does non-trivial damage to it over several rounds. The AC/5 is an ammo-bound Medium laser with almost twice the range. I don't really see what's *so* bad about it other than being a touch on the heavy side.

In other news, I absolutely LOVE SRMs. They are excellent weapons against anything. Especially if you can bring a spare ton to pack on some infero rounds. >=-)

Naughtyboy, on 29 April 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

there actually are mechs slated for many diffrent roles antiaircraft duty, anti personel (plenty MGs or small lasers), when the Clans arrived and their nasty elementals the need for even tougher anti personel mechs was obvious adding smallpulselasers , Some Clans already have mechs made for the purpose of keeping infantery at bay like the Piranha.

Psh, the purpose of the PRA is to get in the rear-side of a Mech and rip up its internals with the M.Guns after peeling away its armour with the lasers. >=-)

Edited by William Petersen, 29 April 2012 - 10:22 PM.

[Naughtyboy]

William Petersen, on 29 April 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

The first and last bolded weapons are excellent crit-seekers. The small caliber ACs, IMO, are good weapons to bring to bear against light mechs at extreme ranges. Lights don't carry much armour, so the AC2 does non-trivial damage to it over several rounds. The AC/5 is an ammo-bound Medium laser with almost twice the range. I don't really see what's *so* bad about it other than being a touch on the heavy side.

In other news, I absolutely LOVE SRMs. They are excellent weapons against anything. Especially if you can bring a spare ton to pack on some infero rounds. >=-)






Psh, the purpose of the PRA is to get in the rear-side of a Mech and rip up its internals with the M.Guns after peeling away its armour with the lasers. >=-)

This says it diffrently taken from the description of that mech..The Piranha was developed by Clan Diamond Shark shortly before the Battle of Tukayyid to combat Inner Sphere conventionalinfantryand light vehicles.

Edited by Naughtyboy, 29 April 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[Donegals]

"These are a serious threat on such a speedy 'Mech to any foe"

Taken from the same article talking about MGs. William is right about light ACs and SRMs. They can do serious damage to lighter mechs.

I'm really not fussed about seeing tanks and infantry in MWO. Only the heaviest of tanks can really bother a Mech 1v1 and if this game is supposed to be about Mech companies going at it then there really isn't much point including things like tanks, infantry and air support.

[Thorn Hallis]

History has shown that every military vehicle can be used to slaughter a planets population.

[Hayashi]

DaZur, on 29 April 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Flipping through my tech manuals (You know if I read in school like I do now I'd be a flipping rocket scientist..) and in reading the various fluff pieces for each Mech, something dawned on me... "These Mechs were designed to do more than battle other Mechs!"... No duh eh?

Seriously though... much of the fluff explains particular nuances of specific Mechs, their load-outs and design purposes. Some were intended to be antiaircraft platforms (Rifleman) Anti-personal (Firestarter) etc..etc..

This got me to thinking... A lot of the Mechs and their load-outs are essentially useless without ground troops, armor and aerospace fighters. Small lasers... machine guns... small caliber ACs and SRMs and flamers to a smaller degree are pretty much wasted critical slots without something other than Mechs to shoot at...

While I agree we are here to shoot each other (in big stompy Mechs)... At some point much further down the road, likely after the Clans make their grand appearance, would it make sense to give thought to bringing in armor, infantry units and aerospace to flesh out the battle field?

Why not? But AI controlled, mind.

DaZur, on 29 April 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

... Of would it be best to keep this rodeo closed to just ponies?

Ponies in the ponies thread only.

[DaZur]

Hayashi, on 29 April 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Why not? But AI controlled, mind.

AI would be just fine...

Inclusion of some additional non-Mech units creates new useful roles for the Mech commander to both utilize as well as defend against. New mech roles like "AA" and "interdiction / harasser" are created allowing more strategic command and battles become multi-dimensional as one has to battle in more planes than what's on the horizon.

Mind you, I am in no way indicating the Mech-on-Mech loving we are soon to experience isn't enough... I just come from a long history or air-combat simulations and as such I tend to see "battles" and not just "engagements".

Edited by DaZur, 30 April 2012 - 04:40 AM.

[Korbyn McColl]

imho, Armor, Infantry, Artillery and Air Support need to remain NPC components of MWO. They should be part of the Command skill tree and players should be able to call them in for support. That's about the extent of it.

Don't get me wrong...I'd LOVE to see a true Mechwarrior MMO, where we could get out of our mechs, play techs, infantry, tankers, pilots, etc... But this game isn't really intended for players to control tanks and aerospace fighters. At least, not from what I've seen. And if they try to bring those components into it, I'm afraid they'll feel like they have to balance those systems so pilots and tankers don't feel cheated. Nah...let's save that stuff for a Mechwarrior MMO and see if we can't show PGI enough support that they are encouraged to eventually develop a full Mechwarrior MMO (sandbox, of course).

[Kudzu]

Karyudo-ds, on 29 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Probably with the Rifleman being an anti-aircraft mech...it's stats didn't support the fluff in the least. The fluff more than likely simply ripped off Macross in which that's what the Defender did specifically.

If you actually play TT with aero you'd be amazed at how well it does, especially in the 3025 era. Flak ammo makes the AC-5's dangerous, and a large laser hit will cause crits on all but the heaviest of aerofighters. The Blackjack and the Jagermech are better, but only due to the AC-2's better range.

[Fameth Sathronaveth]

Donegals, on 29 April 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

"These are a serious threat on such a speedy 'Mech to any foe"

Taken from the same article talking about MGs. William is right about light ACs and SRMs. They can do serious damage to lighter mechs.

I'm really not fussed about seeing tanks and infantry in MWO. Only the heaviest of tanks can really bother a Mech 1v1 and if this game is supposed to be about Mech companies going at it then there really isn't much point including things like tanks, infantry and air support.

I have always maintained and will continue to do so that tanks were way underpowered esp in the mechwarrior series and in TT. In TT it is due to their criticals which are arranged to put them at a huge disadvantage... why? Because the makers of TT wanted people to use mechs which no matter what logic you use should be structurally weaker than any tank of similar tonnage.

I would love to see infantry, tanks, and aero units ingame, as complete smart AI NPCs. I would never ask Piranha to rebuild the entire game so that a few player could get the thrill of playing as these units when they can play Modern Warfare, WoT, and various fighter simulators instead.

While having them as options for call in using the skill tree would be good, I think that they should be in the game separate from that as well [map based units, for example].

Edited by Fameth Sathronaveth, 30 April 2012 - 05:59 AM.

[Zonzai]

I will be very surprised if they don't include tanks and other ground units. however, I will be just as surprised if the mechs made to attack ground troops were critical to the game. I suspect that there will be serious mech on mech action here and less mech on tank action.

[Mason Grimm]

Zonzai, on 30 April 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

I will be very surprised if they don't include tanks and other ground units. however, I will be just as surprised if the mechs made to attack ground troops were critical to the game. I suspect that there will be serious mech on mech action here and less mech on tank action.

Currently they are focusing on Mech on Mech combat only.

Combined Arms MAY be implemented at a later date via the content delivery system but for now it's all about the Mech.

[Stormeris]

Id prefer infantry, aerospace, tanks etc being NPCs, its called Mechwarrior for a reason

[Tremor]

It's something that I wouldn't mind them looking into after launch. But I agree with stormeris, that I'd prefer them as NPCs.

Not that it's relevant, but I'd pilot a Firestarter even if infantry and vehicles never make the game.

[Trevnor]

Tremor, on 30 April 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

It's something that I wouldn't mind them looking into after launch. But I agree with stormeris, that I'd prefer them as NPCs.

Not that it's relevant, but I'd pilot a Firestarter even if infantry and vehicles never make the game.

Fire is scary as heck when you're running a energy based 'mech. A few second burst from those flamers will quickly ruin your day.

[Haakon Valravn]

I don't understand the complaints about traditional armor being weak. This is intentional. If traditional armor isn't weak, people will rapidly drop their 'Mechs for tanks. Which basically turns it into 'Rommel in the Sky! (oh, and there are some big robots you can take if you want to lose)'.

To me, there is no force so BattleTech-ish as a 'Nova' of mediums and heavies with battle armor riding shotgun, properly supported by arty and air, with light armor and helos to screen them. (3025-era'ers take note, I know you'll disagree. That OK, you're just wrong. ) So I would like to see arty and air (whether aerospace fighters or VTOLs or both) as support options, with infantry for missions where objectives (particularly structures) must be taken and held. All AI, of course. With light 'Mechs basically taking the role that I would use light armor/motorized or mechanized reconnaissance in, I don't see a use for armor, except as a warm-up and appetizer for the 'Mechs.

[The unnamed one]

Haakon Valravn, on 30 April 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

I don't understand the complaints about traditional armor being weak. This is intentional. If traditional armor isn't weak, people will rapidly drop their 'Mechs for tanks. Which basically turns it into 'Rommel in the Sky! (oh, and there are some big robots you can take if you want to lose)'.

To me, there is no force so BattleTech-ish as a 'Nova' of mediums and heavies with battle armor riding shotgun, properly supported by arty and air, with light armor and helos to screen them. (3025-era'ers take note, I know you'll disagree. That OK, you're just wrong. ) So I would like to see arty and air (whether aerospace fighters or VTOLs or both) as support options, with infantry for missions where objectives (particularly structures) must be taken and held. All AI, of course. With light 'Mechs basically taking the role that I would use light armor/motorized or mechanized reconnaissance in, I don't see a use for armor, except as a warm-up and appetizer for the 'Mechs.

I agree with you on that except for that last bit. (slightly off topic) I have played RTS games and always played mixed combat units to cover each other. I would like to see tanks, infantry, and air as support units after the launch date.

Edited by The unnamed one, 30 April 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[DaZur]

I am the last person (okay... maybe the second-to-last) to make unrealistic requests or demands that would lead to feature-creep, thus delaying release and my personal enjoyment.

That said... Order of importance:

• All relevant IS Mechs relative to the persistent timeline.
  
• Clan Mechs
  
• Solaris
  
• NPI support units

NPI support units fit a timeline where most of MW:O core content is in place and as such will need a divergence to stay relative and eek out a few more miles...