14 replies to this topic

[Eegxeta]

Mechs are heavy, the lightest they get is 20 tons. For a mech of 20 tons to counteract gravity it would need to produce 20 tons of thrust. I'm pretty sure we can all agree on that. Now for the mech to actually get into the air it needs more than 20 tons of thrust. To get a decent distance in the air the mech would need 5 to 10 ,most likely more, tons of thrust. And all this will required a big engine.

Right we can all agree on that right?

Now lets take a 50 ton mech. We need 50 tons of thrust to counteract gravity. Ok I think I can stop about there becuase you need a bigger engine to get more thrust right. Now medium aren't much bigger than light mechs. So where do you put this gigantic engine. And what about Assault mechs those alone would need a rocket as big or bigger than the mech to lift it off the ground.

Jump Jets should be restricted to light mech. As it is unrealistic to have them on heavier mech unless everyone is content with the answer "the wizard did it".

[Zendric]

The wizard obviously did it.

Don't try to apply physics to BattleTech, it won't stand up the best. If you can accept the pseudo-science that allows the 'Mechs to even exist it shouldn't be too far of a jump to allow Jump Jets.

[Kudzu]

Battletech physics are different. It's been years since I've mess around with the mechlab, so I can't remember if it follows the TT rules of each jumpjet costing more tonnage to use by weight-- .5 tons each for 1 hex/30 meters at 20-55, 1 ton each for 60-75 tons, and 2 tons each for 80-100.

Once you add that in it becomes really cost inefficient for big mechs to mount JJ's.

Edited by Kudzu, 17 November 2011 - 07:31 PM.

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

"
Mech Jump Jets

By harnessing the power of a 'Mech's fusion engine to superheat air or another suitable fluid, Jump Jets allow a BattleMech to briefly overcome gravity and rocket short distances over the battlefield.
Operational Details

Jump jets work in a similar, albeit more limited, fashion to the fusion rockets installed on Aerospace Fighters. Inside a magnetically shielded reaction chamber buried deep inside the 'Mech, an electron beam superheats a reaction mass and expels the expanding gases through nozzles located on the back of the 'Mech or in its legs. Reaction mass is commonly provided in the form of air forced into the reaction chamber by a system of turbo-compressors, but most Mechs have a small amount of alternate reaction mass, usually in the form of hydrogen, water or mercury, in order to facilitate operation in a vacuum and to reduce the wear on the jets from superheated oxygen when in an atmosphere that contains it.

The reaction mass provided by an atmosphere is effectively infinite, but the supplementary reaction mass carried on-board is limited by the number of thruster assemblies installed unless additional tankage is added to the 'Mech.
Because of the heat produced by jump jet activation and limited on-board fuel, jump jets can only maintain thrust for a few seconds. A far cry from flight, jump jets nevertheless allow a 'Mech to make short leaps sufficient enough to outmaneuver Mechs not similarly equipped or bypass obstacles and unfavorable terrain.

Care must be taken when jumping, however, as jumping causes heat buildup with even the shortest jump generating more heat than running, and damage to a 'Mech's gyro or leg actuators and joints can cause a 'Mech to fumble upon landing. Owing to the inability of liquids to be compressed, submerged jump jets cannot be used lest the extreme pressure rupture the jet's casing"

It is the 31st century after all.

[Bansheedragon75]

I dont understand this obsession some people seem to have with realism.
But hey, you want realism, then how about this for realism then.
We already have the technology to escape from the earths gravity today, the orbital space shuttles that are used today weigh around 100+ tons at liftoff (Gross liftoff weight (Orbiter only): 240,000 lb (110,000 kg)), and thats the Orbiter alone, not taking into account the solid rocket boosters and external tank, then take into account 1000 years of technological development, I dont see it as such a far stretch really.

If realism means so much to you how can you even accept the existence the the mechs in the first place?
Considering how warfare is today with the ability to fire weapons that have far greater reach than anything in the BT universe, then take into 1000 years of technological development, I honestly dont see how they can come to exist at all?

I agree we should get as much realism into the game as possible, but there should be room for some imagination as well.
After all its only a game, not the real thing.

Edited by Dragonlord, 17 November 2011 - 07:54 PM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Yeah, i just do this now, Seth had a good idea.

Realism = Immersion. Suspension of disbelief. Can a reasonably mechanically inclined person believe this BS? You bet!

[Wraith 1]

Well I guess if you've already tested trying to use a magneto-hydrodynamic fusion reactor to generate a plasma jet sufficient to make a 100 ton battlemech fly into the air, I'll believe you. (<- sarcasm)

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I'll believe you

[UncleKulikov]

Your post translates to "Things should be this way because right now they are unrealistic".

I don't agree. It's less fun, less interesting, and saying it should be so because that would "be more realistic" isn't convincing.

[Belial]

Alrighty, let's shut this one down now before the banhammer comes a-callin'.

It's science-fiction, and we can all have tons of fun with it. Done.

[Red Beard]

Kudzu, on 17 November 2011 - 07:30 PM, said:

Battletech physics are different. It's been years since I've mess around with the mechlab, so I can't remember if it follows the TT rules of each jumpjet costing more tonnage to use by weight-- .5 tons each for 1 hex/30 meters at 20-55, 1 ton each for 60-75 tons, and 2 tons each for 80-100.

Once you add that in it becomes really cost inefficient for big mechs to mount JJ's.

You are going to need to come to the point here soon where you realize that quoting table top rules DECREASES the relevance of one's post.

[Red Beard]

Belial, on 17 November 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

Alrighty, let's shut this one down now before the banhammer comes a-callin'.

It's science-fiction, and we can all have tons of fun with it. Done.

Amen. Lightsabers cannot happen, but we all love them.

[Energy Echo]

Belial, on 17 November 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

Alrighty, let's shut this one down now before the banhammer comes a-callin'.

It's science-fiction, and we can all have tons of fun with it. Done.

A REALLY non-constructive thread. Thread creator is on thin ice here...

[Energy Echo]

Kudzu, on 17 November 2011 - 07:30 PM, said:

Battletech physics are different. It's been years since I've mess around with the mechlab, so I can't remember if it follows the TT rules of each jumpjet costing more tonnage to use by weight-- .5 tons each for 1 hex/30 meters at 20-55, 1 ton each for 60-75 tons, and 2 tons each for 80-100.

Once you add that in it becomes really cost inefficient for big mechs to mount JJ's.

How do the TT rules come into play here? It's just a matter of suspended disbelief.

[Kudzu]

Energy Echo, on 17 November 2011 - 10:06 PM, said:

How do the TT rules come into play here? It's just a matter of suspended disbelief.

Because they're much more balanced in the table top rules.