31 replies to this topic

[BahamutSin]

Looking for some advice here. My favorite mech is my spider. After running around the legs and staring at the knee caps of various assault mechs I decided it may be nice for a change to stride into battle in a titan. In my mini-mech career I have watched the big guys go at it and learned (theoretically) what not to do and maybe a little of what to do. So I buy a stalker-5m...

I jump in my stalker and it is a complete suck. I know it is slow with a ton of lead in it's a$$. It's torso twist is phenomenally bad. All that i knew before I started. All this I can deal with...I just can't seem to kill a thing...or do much damage before my mech is turned into a fine metallic powder.

General:
I always use MAX armor.
I stay with the herd of other assaults / ECM's so I am not a lone target
I stay targeted on the same mech til it (hopeuflly) dies
I stay behind as much cover as I can find in a walking skyscraper
I have an AMS equipped (mildly helpful)
Have tried w+w/o XL engine to check survivability differences

Loadouts Attempted (Max DHS on all)
(4) LRM20 version. Gayer than a herd of unicorns. Boring. Still didn't live long.
(2)ERPPC (2)ERLLR (1) ML (6) SRM.
(4) ERLLR (1)LPL (6) SSRM.
(4) ERPPC. <--I won't do it. I can't...just wrong lol

I realize it has only been 10 matches. Avg. Match Dmg. 112. Not expecting to be a super pilot out of the gate .I just feel that I am taking up a Stalker slot that could be put to better use. Am I not giving it enough of a chance? Is there a steep learning curve to these things? Is there some random tactic I haven't grasped for assault mechs'? I realize this is all fairly vague but any help would be appreciated.

[smurfynet]

Hi,

i also own stalkers (3 of them) and i like the F the most because of the slightly better torso twist.
But that aside. i also liked the M.

I do not play that much anymore but i used this build with my STK-5M with my F i use something similar but i recently switched to an loadout with BAP (because of the streaks).

What i would suggest not using is ERxxx because heat management is a ***** even without them.

But i guess there are more experienced Stalker out there, which could give you better tips than i can do

Phil

[oldradagast]

Never piloted a Stalker, but I have run an Atlas for months and done well in that, and the same in a Highlander. I'm not a great pilot, but I can place along the top in my PUG matches, so I have to at least be doing something right for that type of game.

Like all assaults, you're a huge, slow target. Going from a Spider to a Stalker is like night and day. You're much easier to hit - thank heavens for all that extra armor! - and you are far to slow to escape a fight if it goes badly. On the plus side, you have far more armor and firepower.

You've been doing everything right thus far, but assault mechs are tricky to learn. A few other pointers:

1) Be careful committing to an push / move forward into hostile terrain. You are far to slow to run away if things go badly. While assault mechs "lead the charge" they still need a group with them to survive. That, and in most cases the heavies and mediums are actually the first one over the hill with the assault mech following a hair after to drop the hammer on the disrupted enemy line.

2) Shoot over cover. One the Stalker's strengths is that many of its weapons are mounted high up, letting you fire over cover while keeping a good chunk of your mech safe. Many mechs do not have this advantage, so exploit it.

3) Keep your back to a wall if be circle-killed by a light. Stalker's turn and twist like barges, so if a light is circle-strafing you to death and you don't have help nearby, back up to a wall so he can't hit you from behind. Now, he has to pass in front of your guns if he wants to fight you, which will give you a chance.

4) Don't be afraid to ask for help from the group. Just because you're in an assault doesn't mean you're invincible (as you know) so ask for help as needed.

I hope this helps!

[Dauphni]

Stalkers are incredible machines if you learn to use them right. I haven't seen you play, but given that you're a Spider pilot, my guess is that you're engaging to often and too early. You've experienced how sluggish the Stalker is, but I don't think you've fully grasped the implications of that yet. You simply cannot disengage when you're staring another Mech in the face. In your Spider, you could be halfway across the map while your opponent is still trying to turn around to see where you came from. A Stalker, or any other assault for that matter, just doesn't have that advantage.

Do you remember what happens when you encounter a lone assault in your Spider? Easy pickings, right? You know how you've thought ‘I wouldn't want to be that guy right now’? That's the key: you don't want to be that guy. Pick your battles wisely, stay with your friendlies, and only pursue when you're absolutely certain it's safe.

[Nebelfeuer]

Can feel your pain mate - never found stalkers to be much fun.
They are kind of special since they are best at migrating damage when they face the enemy with their front changing slightly between left and right profile due to their strange hitzone layout.

You might want to try atlas or highlander though: they are a lot better at torso/arm twisting and it is a lot easyer to spread incoming dmg over the whole mech. Highlanders can also carry XL engines without risking to much.

Overall it can be said that assaults get a lot better if you unlock the mechtrees.
Play a little conservative untill you know the enemys whereabouts and find a good oportinity to make the one deciding push your amour is good for that is hopefully supported by your teammates - after that( depending on your leftover armor) you might again want to fall back a littlel while cleaning up.

Most importand things with assaults there is no change of plans! Once you deciede to step into a battle you will fight it to the end one way the other. Your build should reflect this mentality and run comparably cool while still offering good firepower.
True pure sniper and longrange builds are possible but that is basically throwing away all the tonnage used for armor on that big immobile turrent you are steering and can normally be done better by something lighter and faster then you.
Bringing a single wellsized LRM launcher on an assault for indirect fire is nevver wrong though.

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 12 July 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Mr Andersson]

I have piloted a few stalkers and here is the one I currently use: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...32951ded4f4a354

Taking a stalker, or any other assault for that matter, to battle requires as much awareness of your surroundings as a light. Never move anywhere without knowing exaclty where the nearest cover is, and how long it will take you to get behind it. All slow mechs are very vulnerable to LRMs, although the stalker maybe less so than the others as it doesn't take as many hits to the CT.

AMS is a waste of tonnage, in my opinion. If you know how to dodge LRMs, you don't need it. If you don't, it's not gonna make a difference.

Always go into battle with friends at your sides. You don't want to be flanked. If you have your enemy straight in front of you, your mech presents a relatively small target and your survivability is great. The enemy will have a hard time concentration his damage on your CT, negating the need for you to torso twist. Sure, you will lose a side torso quite often, but that's only 40% of your firepower. And by that time you will have melted away the body part of your choice from the unlucky guy receiving the love from your lasers.

Never run an XL engine in a stalker. Ever.

[BahamutSin]

Wanted to throw a quick 'Thank You' out here for the replies. I will keep at it and take the advice. I always appreciate a polite forum. =)

[Jay Z]

I started in the Jenners then moved straight to the stalkers hand have mastered all of them (except the Misery). In that time I have tried countless builds and have a smurfy folder dedicated to stalker builds. (Thanks Phil!).

The 5M is my personal favourite. Honestly, those builds you mentioned aren't particularly great but good to see you are trying stuff. A few general tips
1. Never XL
2. Aim for a STD300 wherever possible and drop to STD275 when you need more dakka. Stock STD255 is OK for LRM boat.
3. Decide on a role and stick with it.
4. Try to have 21DHS or more.
5. Avoid Endo Steel as you'll need the slots for most 5M builds.
6. Go super front heavy on armour distribution
7. Reduce leg armour to no less than 41. 49 and 57 are good values too. (Shave from arms if desperate)
8. Have fun trying all sorts of builds. Some work great others fail spectacularly.

OK, so time for some builds:
Template
Full Brawler (This is my current build (as of 20 minutes ago). It uses 3SRM6 2SRM4 to get around heat penalty)
All-Rounder (I ran this for a long time and is one of my favourites. I've had 8 kill games and it breathes fire!)
5LL (Yes, it is an energy boat but it works well. Don't alpha. Cycle left, right and fire centre ERLL when needed.
Don't Judge Me (It's a 4PPC stalker with an ML for backup, I don't use it much but it works.)
Multirange (Always something to shoot at. Great for supporting the pack and fending off lights.)
LRM Ship A bit underengined but I get at least 2 kills 400 damage each time I use it.

I hope this helps. The 5M is an amazing mech so much potential at all ranges.

Edited by Jay Z, 12 July 2013 - 06:27 PM.

[KingGnome]

Thanks Jay Z for those builts. I have a 3F, a 3H, and a 5S in the process of dumping my 310XL's and going to a the lower standards which still are pretty fast and adding heat sinks. dumping my ER PPC's for PPC's my ER LL x5 to normal LL's. Not sure if i'm gonna make my LRM boat quite that slow. I did your armor recomendations. Allin in all noticed i'm killing a lot more and doing doing a lot more damage.

[Xiang]

HI all,

A bit late to the party, but here goes....
I am a spider/light pilot also, and the stalkers were my first foray into the big baddies.

Dont judge your mech too early, you may have just gotten some bad games. If you are comfortable with your build based on your play style, give it a decent chance....then try a different build if you need to.

Here is what i use for my 3 stalkers...no links...lazy tonight (and cant remember everything since i am at work...LOL):

5m - great build above with the 5 SSRMs, 2 meds, 2 lg and 1 flamer (i might give this one a run).
I currently use 2 meds, 2 med pulse and 1 lg with 5 SSRMs and std 300, great for those pesky lights that come to annoy you and your big buddies.

3h - LRM boat, 2-20's and 2-15's with artemis, tag, 1 med laser, xl 300 (since you shouldnt be brawling) and about 1620 rounds of ammo. Pity the mech that gets in my line of site and i can tag him....they melt very fast.

3f - dont play it much right now, and not sure of actual loadout, but std 300 with 4 lg lasers i think and a ton of DHS.

Play till you get elite done, and you will notice a huge difference in your mechs abilities, and likely your enjoyment of the chasis.

Getting into a consistant group can also make a difference. If you are not already in a group, or are looking for people to play with, we have a group that is growing to cover all time zones (mostly AU for now), but look us up at ARMD.net.au (or click the link below, you can get the teamspeak info off our site and join us for some drops!

Xiang

[Corvus Antaka]

3F

2 ERPPC

4 MLaser

4 SSRM2

[Tarl Cabot]

I would hazard, as previously mentioned, engaging too soon. I would say it is possible you are not engaging soon enough, at range. For most assaults, damage needs to start as soon as possible to soften up their opponents. If you are using cover while moving and not firing til you are real close then you have not given yourself any leeway.

A spider is in your face, hmm, kneecaps (unless ya been piloting an ERPPC one), using cover to get in and out and close that range. Whereas in an assault you are looking for routes and fire lanes that will allow you to touch the enemy before he knows he has been touched.

Now, if you feel you would rather be in their face, change your setup to close range weapons with one/two long range for good measure then sell yourself dearly but not too early in the match. The difference between having everyone focused on you while allowing your team to take advantage of the situation can go a very long way to winning the match, provided the opportunity is there, or you make the opportunity.

[BoPop]

mastered them all, fast.

i think a good approach is to think of stalkers as heavily armored turrets that just so happen to walk. i like to make sure mine are fast enough to move with the herd and can pack some close range punch. always have ams and stick with the herds ams, don't let PPC/Gauss boats snipe on ya, you'll be fine. moving is tough, and it should be for something that can be so deadly.

everyone seems to boat them out one way or another, but i mastered mine quickly with nothing but LRM's and maxed my energy slots with medium lasers. there's that sweet spot too, if you have line of sight, correct range and get the timing right, forget it about it, you will toast a mech. a light or medium comes at ya? hit it with 5 or 6 medium lasers it will run off. only a heavy or assault that gets close range on you is dangerous, mano y mano. but even then 5 ML is nothing to scoff at.

of course, i had a ton of cbills and premium time during 'the stalker project', i also have a lot of engines which ultimately allowed me to tweak things to the max. gl

[Capfailboat]

It is a tough chassis to get used to, but it is DAMAGING once you do. The torso twist is "meh" but lots of people run from you in the face of an alpha. Because of this mechs low maneuverability (terribad for even the assaults) it is better suited to a long range support role. Maybe when brawling is back in style other builds will be good again. With a rare exception you NEVER put in an XL engine. The side torsos are bigger than an obese hippos butt. Since you can't always twist enough to really spread damage like other mechs it usually goes to the side torsos.

IMO The STK-3F is best variant in the pack. If it can fit on that chassis it can work on just about every other chassis. Why would you want to put it on any other though? You get the most torso twist here. I tried some non PPC builds, but I found the PPC's were tearing me up. You are not fast enough to out run the current meta in this game and brawl so you'd better join everyone on PPC-***** Island. Also once these chassis get to Elite they are WAY more forgiving.

I run the following: STK-3F: iWin Button

I have a Misery as well that I used for brawling, but when I started winning, I was matched in brackets where PPC's so sadly it is the same as my 3F with +30% c-bills per match. I won't get rid of her because I'm hopeful brawling will com back and I can rip them with 7 weapons at a time.

Lastly is the red-headed, black sheep of the stalker chassis. It is an odd bird that I don't see too often which boggles the mind. The STK-3H is THE iconic missile boat. Do you want to rain the pain? This one is for you. Sadly you can't equip it for solo survivability and make it a feared LRM battery without making a sacrifice to speed, armor, or ammo. I'm going to post my build below but it has one huge caveat, it's a glass cannon. I used to play solo and sucked it up big time until I started playing with my Mech Corp. Once I had back up I could rain down terror. Sadly, I realize I don't have it in smurphy yet, but here are the particulars:
STK-3H
XL300
2X LRM20+Arty (arms)
2x LRM5+Arty (side torsos)
4 ML (arms and side torsos)
AMS
BAP
1t AMS Ammo
10t LRM ammo
Armor 448 Standard
Structure Standard
Speed 57.1 (w/o Speed Tweak)
Firepower 75

Before the local trolls start circling, understand this mech MUST have support. Also you cant just sit an spray. You must move with the battle group to stay alive. Otherwise you are out of position, alone, and a few hits from a crit engine. If a light get on you you can discourage them, but call your mates for help. "But wait, your name is Cap'n Failboat. You are definitely living up to the name." they say. Well this mech is NOT a front line or direct fire support mech. Don't pilot it like one. "Well you could put bigger LRM racks on it." is another quip i hear. Well this thing only has 52 missile tubes. I'd raather put out one concentrated volley instead of two spread ones. Beside the LRM5's cycle really quickly and I can fire them twwice fore every LRM20 shot. AMS even dual is no problem. Lastly this mech is really fun in the 12v12 matches with another missile platform and a couple of utility mechs taging, spotting and narcing. (you dont get the narc bonus, but you do get to retain the target anyway) Anyway that's my 2 MC.

[Dauphni]

Ah, but your name isn't Cap'n Failboat, it's CapnFaiiboat, and you know that That's actually a pretty scary Mech, when it lets loose all 50 missiles in one go. I run something quite similar in my 5S, and while the missiles do need two volleys to launch, it also has the benefit of TAG and a dual AMS system, which makes it surprisingly pug-friendly as long as you keep your wits about you.

[Capfailboat]

Uite Dauphni, on 14 July 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Ah, but your name isn't Cap'n Failboat, it's CapnFaiiboat, and you know that That's actually a pretty scary Mech, when it lets loose all 50 missiles in one go. I run something quite similar in my 5S, and while the missiles do need two volleys to launch, it also has the benefit of TAG and a dual AMS system, which makes it surprisingly pug-friendly as long as you keep your wits about you.

In the spirit of my name, I failed at spelling it too. I agree with you on the TAG, but I came up with this for 12v12 premade Corps drops. The Raven and Treb in my group will carry the utility stuff. In a PUG i can drop 1 laser for a TAG and add some armor. I prefer more missle tubes and the 5S can only fire 36 in a single volley. That trumps the dual AMS. Additionally a 5S runs in my 12v12 lance and has dual to supplement my AMS.

Edited by CapnFaiiboat, 14 July 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Dauphni]

Gotcha, when you're playing it competitively, your build probably is the superior one. I'm a bit more casual though, and so is my unit, so for me my loadout makes more sense. Gotta love how little things like that translate into different design philosophies!

[Jalik]

BahamutSin, on 12 July 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

Looking for some advice here. My favorite mech is my spider.
I jump in my stalker and it is a complete suck.

give it some time. with elite skills it gets alot better regarding torso twist and general maneuverability. it also needs some 'getting used to' especially if you're used to pilot lighter mechs. I'd advice you to pick a loadout that covers a broad spectrum of possible combat ranges and then just to play, play, play, play until you got the hang of it. if you then still find your loadout to be less than optimal, tweak it. but get used to the mech first (I know it's slow
Personally, I prefer a stronger STD engine over AMS. I usually use the STD 300, with elite that gives you something like 65 kph. that's fast enough. I also prefer LL because they pretty much work on all relevant combat ranges. I use 4 of them together with 3 SSRM + BAP + Artemis on a Stalker 3F. Pretty good for PUGs and against many types of opponents.

Edited by Jalik, 16 July 2013 - 02:35 AM.

[KingGnome]

i bought this one about 2 months ago. it's silent as can be and handles all the gmaes i play just great. it has a fan but i have yet to hear it. i got mine from the newgen outlet listed as ysed (brand new open box. it can sealed in the packaging and the i did get the maufacures warrenty as well. cost 45 bucks.with shipping.

http://www.amazon.co...&condition=used

[Edson Drake]

One thing people didn't mention: Stalkers are getting plenty of hate these days.

Due to the PPC abuse, everytime an Stalker contacts an enemy it will be targeted by the whole team. Be it PPC or Missile boat, it draws as much attention as an Atlas but not because of the size.

If you take the advices above you only have to win, OP, as the Stalker is a very rewarding chassis once mastered. There is, however, the thing with the chassis you're more comfortable with. Sometimes, it's not a bad mech for you, it's just you don't feel comfortable with it, it happens.

Quote

3F

2 ERPPC

4 MLaser

4 SSRM2

Pretty darn good build. I would only use PPCs instead of ErPPCs. Very balanced build.

Edited by Edson Drake, 17 July 2013 - 05:11 PM.