22 replies to this topic

[Radiohazard]

Seriously, why does anyone take an AC20 when an AC10 is better?

It has more range, only does 1 less DPS than the AC20 and you get more ammo per ton.

That and I think Dual AC10 would be better than a single AC20.

Are there any mechs that can be great with dual AC10?

Edited by Radiohazard, 19 November 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Col Forbin]

Probably only a Catapult at this time. I'm not entirely sure because I'm not a fan of driving them. I do like my AC10 dragon a lot. Although with the wonky ballistics physics and netcode it's harder to hit at the extra range it provides...

[Harrels Badgerton]

I don't have Mechbay on this PC, but if the values are the same from the BT Wiki it's because an AC20 is 14 Tons and 10 Slots but two AC10s are 24 Tons and 14 slots.

One ton of Ammo for AC20 = 7 volleys (I think?), one ton for two AC10s = five volleys.
AC20 is same high damage stuck in a smaller lighter package that is all delivered (or missed!) in one shot, to one spot.

With that said I would like to try a Cannonpult build with dual 10s to see if it's worthwhile, and could still hold other weaponry.

[Eggs Mayhem]

The AC/10 may be a more efficient weapon ton for ton than the AC/20, but I really like the ability to very short run n guns with the AC/20. My fave place to be in my 4G hunch is the city sections of river city, where you can move cover to cover and fire between. Not as effective with AC/10 when doing that, but the AC/10 would best the AC/20 in open terrain, assuming its pilot can aim, and also assuming the AC/20 pilot isn't boating heat sinks.

[BOOMLegShot]

Radiohazard, on 19 November 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

Seriously, why does anyone take an AC20 when an AC10 is better?

It has more range, only does 1 less DPS than the AC20 and you get more ammo per ton.

That and I think Dual AC10 would be better than a single AC20.

Are there any mechs that can be great with dual AC10?

Uhhh...because two AC/10 take up a lot more tonnage and space than one AC/20?
The AC/20 is actually more efficient in terms of dps per ton. "Only 1 dps less" is a 20% drop! Meanwhile it's only a 14% weight drop. Heat? Same for the same dps. There's also the fact that the AC/20 is going to be hitting one spot while the AC/10 has a good chance of spreading out.
What you should be asking is why anyone would ever take an AC/10 over an Ultra AC/5.

Edited by BOOMLegShot, 19 November 2012 - 10:45 PM.

[Eggs Mayhem]

BOOMLegShot, on 19 November 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

What you should be asking is why anyone would ever take an AC/10 over an Ultra AC/5.

The AC/10 is getting a buff and the UAC/5 is getting nerfed so it behaves like an AC/5 without doublefiring, meaning we hopefully won't need to ask that question anymore. Hoping the AC/10 doesn't obsolete the AC/5 though.

[MustrumRidcully]

A question you also have to ask yourself - can you even equip 2 AC/10? Weight is one thing, but crit slots and hard points is another.

If you can equip 4 AC/10 instead of 2 AC/20, it may be worth it, but if you can only equip 2 ballistic weapons of their size together - then you might be better of with the one with the most damage output.

[Kmieciu]

2x AC/20 has one obvious advantage: if you manage to hit the enemy in the cockpit, it`s game over for them.

[manicx782]

Kmieciu, on 19 November 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

2x AC/20 has one obvious advantage: if you manage to hit the enemy in the cockpit, it`s game over for them.

As someone who mainly uses 2x AC/20, I can vouch for that. The weapons convergence isn't so great close quarters, and you turn into a brawler instead of a sniper, but it is still some devastating firepower. However, you can go for other parts instead. Legging a light mech pretty much guarantees that kill, and disabling someone's main weapons is also a good alternative.

EmperorMyrf, on 19 November 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

The AC/10 is getting a buff and the UAC/5 is getting nerfed so it behaves like an AC/5 without doublefiring, meaning we hopefully won't need to ask that question anymore. Hoping the AC/10 doesn't obsolete the AC/5 though.

Following that, the AC/20 is getting a bigger buff than the 10. And I agree, the only benefit from using an AC/5 over UAC/5 is that ammo is cheaper. I hope they increase range, or something like that.

[Hauser]

Radiohazard, on 19 November 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

Seriously, why does anyone take an AC20 when an AC10 is better?

DPS is not that important. You also want that damage to be delivered on a single point.

But yeah, if you have the tonnage and space to spare to mount two AC10s then go for it.

[Booran]

Both 10 and 20 will get buffed to make these guns more viable in different builds.

[Harrels Badgerton]

manicx782, on 20 November 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

As someone who mainly uses 2x AC/20, I can vouch for that. The weapons convergence isn't so great close quarters, and you turn into a brawler instead of a sniper, but it is still some devastating firepower. However, you can go for other parts instead. Legging a light mech pretty much guarantees that kill, and disabling someone's main weapons is also a good alternative.

Following that, the AC/20 is getting a bigger buff than the 10. And I agree, the only benefit from using an AC/5 over UAC/5 is that ammo is cheaper. I hope they increase range, or something like that.

The benefit of using an AC/5 instead of a UAC/5 is that an AC/5 never jams. the only thing I liked about my raven 4x was the UAC5 build, but man that was a blast. And at only 1 more ton than AC5! Every single time that thing jammed though, I had to question whether getting it to basic cert was even worth it.

Now what about these buffs/nerfs? I know of the projectile speed buff for the 10 and 20 but I didn't know they were doing anything with the UAC5.
I still think they should change the jam-recovery to a long cool down, like 10 seconds

[michaelius]

Harrels Badgerton, on 20 November 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I still think they should change the jam-recovery to a long cool down, like 10 seconds

Check patch notes

[Deadoon]

michaelius, on 20 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Check patch notes

That was posted pre patch.

[WVAnonymous]

I have run dual AC/20 Catapults and dual LB/10-X Catapults, but never a dual AC/10 Catapult. The dual AC/20 is a riot in the tunnels (no aiming required) but REALLY slow. The dual LB/10-X lets you brawl much more effectively. The Cat can support enough engine, HS, and ammo to let you be pretty versatile.

I look forward to tinkering with the Cataphract. (But I miss being able to say "Cat" without confusion.)

[Eggs Mayhem]

Harrels Badgerton, on 20 November 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Now what about these buffs/nerfs? I know of the projectile speed buff for the 10 and 20 but I didn't know they were doing anything with the UAC5.
I still think they should change the jam-recovery to a long cool down, like 10 seconds

Paul himself stated that the UAC/5 will be brought down to be equal to the AC/5, I assume he meant while single-fired.

Source.

[Calmon]

My personal calculation sheet which consider DPS/Heat/Tons/Slots/Ammo Load (Ammo calculated for exact 150 seconds shooting) but not range/jam/spread of weapon/special effects says the following in moment for ballistics:

Ultra AC/5(0.59) > Gauss(0.49) > AC5(0.46) > LB 10-X (0.45) > AC2/AC10 (0.37) > AC20 (0.36)

I don't have machine gun in this calculation.

AC20 is from that perspective behind, and like said it doesn't consider range wich would make AC20 even worse.
2 weapons leads by far: U-AC5 and Gauss and consider this are the 3rd and 2nd best weapons from range perspective which isn't calculated in my forms

[Thrak]

EmperorMyrf, on 20 November 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Paul himself stated that the UAC/5 will be brought down to be equal to the AC/5, I assume he meant while single-fired.

Source.

Isn't that just under the heading 'Projectile speeds on AC rounds can use a buff.' The only assumption we can make for that is that projectile speeds on UAC 5 rounds are to be matched to the AC 5 round speed. Nothing mentioned about ROF or damage. I've heard some people saying that the UAC is going to be nerfed (i.e. dmg etc) to match the AC, not sure if something has been lost in translation?

Edited by Thrak, 21 November 2012 - 09:07 AM.

[Eggs Mayhem]

Thrak, on 21 November 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Isn't that just under the heading 'Projectile speeds on AC rounds can use a buff.' The only assumption we can make for that is that projectile speeds on UAC 5 rounds are to be matched to the AC 5 round speed. Nothing mentioned about ROF or damage. I've heard some people saying that the UAC is going to be nerfed (i.e. dmg etc) to match the AC, not sure if something has been lost in translation?

Ohhhh I misread, thanks for the clarification. In that case, I really hope the other stats are made to match the AC/5 while single-fired because right now paying the extra ton to upgrade from AC/5 to UAC/5 gives you a relatively massive bonus. But that's another thread.

[theta123]