90 replies to this topic

[Aerouge]

Hi guys...
since start of open beta I had a fairly empty mech-hangar staring at me.

And as I do not want to fill my hangar with "real life money mechs" I wondered ... how to earn money fast?

After some rounds with PUGs (meaning losing 80% of the time) I reconsidered the idea of earning c-bills while "playing". You fight for 10 minutes and either receive ~60k (+some damage / spot / destruction bonus) for a loss or 80k for a win (+money for salvage) I realized that this does not make you rich soon.

To earn 6 Mil for a Catapult you would have to play 60-100 matches ... each roughly lasting 7 minutes meaning if you play fast and win more often than lose you have to play 7 hours for 1 mech. In case of things going bad its more like 12 hours of constant suckage in an trial mech. Oh the joy!

So how to optimize this? Jump into an trial raven... run up to the next enemy atlas kick his shin and power down. Gets you killed in 1-2 minutes, you can disconnect and jump into the next match (as trial mechs dont remain on the battle field until the game is over, as owned mechs do). So this earns you the 60k c-bills for a loss in 2 minutes.

So in essence. By blowing up fast you earn more than by totaly obliterating the enemy team. Maximum payout I archived in a trial mech was 134k c-bills and that was one hell of a good round lasting 12 minutes. In the same time getting killed in a raven (takes 2 minutes with match-finding and startscreen) earns you 6x60k =360k c-bills. Almost 3 times the money.

So by playing BAD you earn MORE C-Bills.

Is this lame? Sure.
Does this screw over the rest of your team? Definately.
Is this way of farming valid in current game-design? Yep
Is this tempting for players who cant or dont want to invest real currency? Unfortunately yes.

And from the last games I joined (and played through to the end in an slow as hell Trial Awesome) I noticed that this mechanic is already used often. Guys in trial mechs running up to the enemy... getting killed ... then disconecting with 16-20 dmg in end game screen are in EVERY FREAKING PUG.

An average pilot causes 100-300 dmg. Good pilots can rack up to 1k dmg done. HOW THE HELL do people die with 10-20 points of dmg caused? That is one salvo of a trial RAVEN.

But if it is either this or beeing next to chanceless for the first 10 hours of playing a new game....

[Krivvan]

It's well-known which is why they've already stated they're addressing this specific issue the coming patch.

[Kraita]

Indeed they will be fixing it. Plus if you buy a cheaper mech say a light or a medium you get more money then work your way up rather then just going straight to a heavy. You learn more that way to.

[cryonic]

The fix is probably not allowing a new game to be started till the current one ends. Anything else penalised inexperienced players or people with high latency or low spec machines.

[Kernfeuer]

Well sure it will be fixed in a uppcomming patch...but that solves not the problem it just cover it.
Maybe some of your noticed that an player in his own mech who fight till the end and do some serious damage to enemys (maybe kill some) getting less c-bills after repair/rearm then an suiciding trial player..in some cases (bad loss) he have more paids then gains especially when he/she is running expensive stuff (streaks/lrm and so on)

So that problem wont vanish and isnt an issue of new starter pilots only..then when ur have done farming for ur own mech ur realize then heíll need some gear....and then its starting over again

So at least punish of those wont have the desired effect....they have to encorage players for good playing more than punished for bad...so in fact...more c-bills for killing- spotting- asisting..that an mechwarrior after the end of battle (after repair/rearm) gains seriousley more some one who is doing notthing but die.

thats so far from me

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

I'll be suicide farming up my bank too soon. I lose about 85% of my games when I actually try to fight because the stupid premade vs pug issue is still here and almost every enemy you fight is queued together running voice chat. Don't try to call it a coincidence when enemies are mocking us during chat or advertising their premade team after they roll over us. Scores are also often 8-0 or 8-1 and that's next to impossible in a pug vs pug matchup. With 2 pugs, half the winner's team is pretty much guaranteed to lose half of theirs in the fighting. With a premade vs pug, they will lose nothing or almost nothing.(2 deaths at the most) They were suppose to cap premades at 4 people so that if you queued solo... you weren't just fodder for them to shoot at. But that apparently didn't go into effect for Open Beta like it should have.(I guess early impressions for new comers and potential customers isn't something they care about. You really think they're going to stay when you mercilessly stomp them in the face every game?)

I did the math like you but pre Open Beta with Founder Mechs. Suicide losing is in fact more profitable than actually fighting for the lose. This is made even more profitable by the fact that you can just swap Mechs and immediately requeue. Losing in 2mins then moving on to the next game is far better than losing in 10. In the time it would take a fighter to fight 1 game and lose, I could have suicided in 3 or 4 and gotten 3 or 4x the money. I should mention that if you strip the Mechs that you want to ride in to die, you'll save money in repairs. Strip off all guns, all armor, and the repair bill will be almost nothing. You're doing it in a Trial, but I say this for Founder players. I have a 25% boost on a Jenner so that's the one I'm going to use; and he gets repair bills. The boost however does cover the repair cost so I am slightly better off than a suiciding Trial. I'm going to turn my Trial Jenner into a suicide farm Mech. Working as intended Piranha? I'm left to believe this is what you intended or else you wouldn't have made the economy work this way and still have no pug queue viability.

Edited by Bluten, 31 October 2012 - 03:55 AM.

[Dezereus]

@_@

While I agree that the system needs to be changed so that the newer players and non-founders can more easily get into the heart of the game. (For example the pilot trees and mech customization options) However, expecting it to be really easy to get into heavy or assault mechs is silly in my opinion. That said, I do feel that winning doesn't offer enough reward. I would like to see the rewards for winning increased, which should help with most of your concerns and actually reward people for playing the game. With that said, it probably also wouldn't hurt for people to start with a million c-bills or something to help things get rolling.

On the other hand, people using the tactic listed above, should be banned in my opinion. People afking in the game, the tactic you mention(which I assume would be near impossible to track, save for through other players), and alt f4ing to avoid death and deny kill rewards are all unacceptable and childish actions. This happens way too often, a lot of the battles I have been in have had one or more afks on both sides. Which effectively rapes the poor match making system, giving others a negative experience with the system in general. It was mentioned in another topic, but I can't remember which, that adding a tribunal system like what was implemented in League of Legends would be beneficial should this type of action continue to plague the game. I think that would probably help limit abuse of the system in the manner that you are describing.

I'm not going to argue with you over your 80% of losses that you blame on pug stomping premades, because as far as I am concerned, that's a completely different argument. And in my experience with the game(almost entirely solo, or playing with 1 friend) vastly differs with what you are describing. However for us to argue the point, would call into question perception and what I see as vast exaggeration. Thus requiring me to call you a liar, which I am not willing to do. As you and I have had vastly different subjective experiences, I am merely pointing out that such an endeavour would be fruitless and that there is no point for me to call you a liar or for you to call me a liar.

Thank you for your time, if you really feel a need to discuss this beyond the response that I have typed, please PM me.

Edited by Dezereus, 31 October 2012 - 03:57 AM.

[siLve00]

i see the same problem..

its easy.. your own performance doesnt matter at all. since there is this win/lose cbill factor.. it will be faster. to suicide.

answer of this all :

lower the basis win/lose cbills ( ammo/repair costs need to get a lil bit lower then too again )
spot / kill / assist cbills up to 3k
damage cbills from 10 ( thats what you get right now ) up to an amount ox XX%

so those fast rushes will stop too.. since its more profitable to just rush or to die instead of using ammo and to fight.


edit : i dont say its to hard to get a cumstom mech right now as non founder/premium player*

Edited by siLve00, 31 October 2012 - 03:59 AM.

[Riffleman]

Double heat sinks wait for 2 weeks for a patch that will hopefully fix them.

Many other huge issues unattended since inception.

This? probably patched today or tomorrow.

I was hopeing the game would make it to community warfare.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Ban players for doing what is best for their income in a game? The better solution would be to design a better game...

[Joseph Mallan]

Quote

its easy.. your own performance doesnt matter at all. since there is this win/lose cbill factor.. it will be faster. to suicide.

You know if your team wins and you assist in that victory (Spot for indiresct fire, assist in kills, etc) you make more money. So just suiciding is actually slower than participating AND you don't learn how to work as a team, and you don't play the game. How much fun is that?

I know it's the work of the Devil, but take your Trial Mech and get on the MWO TS server in the waiting for a team dropship. You will be on the winning/earning path in a few minutes.

[Greyfyl]

Right now dealing damage and killing enemies has almost no effect on your c-bills. The combat portion of the game is damn good (except for the hit detection) but the rest of the game just leaves you scratching your head at the design decisions that have been made.

[Krivvan]

Bluten, on 31 October 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Scores are also often 8-0 or 8-1 and that's next to impossible in a pug vs pug matchup.

That's very common in a PUG vs PUG matchup. And I know this as an absolute fact because I experienced this when groups didn't exist.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Krivvan, on 31 October 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

That's very common in a PUG vs PUG matchup. And I know this as an absolute fact because I experienced this when groups didn't exist.

It can happen occasionally but it is NOT "very common".

[Krivvan]

Bluten, on 31 October 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

It can happen occasionally but it is NOT "very common".

It was "very common". Up to the point where every single game of a day was a 8-0 to 8-2 stomp. After 1 or 2 deaths on one team it was rare for the winning team to ever get a loss after that.

Close 6-8 or 7-8 games were a nice rarity.

This is all because even missing a single mech is a gigantic disadvantage for a team. So a single mech suiciding off drastically reduces the team's chance of even getting out of a stomp PUG or not.

Edited by Krivvan, 31 October 2012 - 04:14 AM.

[Kurayami]

uhuh. so you don't play to play. seriously why are you here? to play or to stare at shiny pixels? or you have some rare unknown disease which not permits you from playing without some very specific pieces of equipment?

Edited by Kurayami, 31 October 2012 - 04:15 AM.

[Riffleman]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 October 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

You know if your team wins and you assist in that victory (Spot for indiresct fire, assist in kills, etc) you make more money. So just suiciding is actually slower than participating AND you don't learn how to work as a team, and you don't play the game. How much fun is that?

I know it's the work of the Devil, but take your Trial Mech and get on the MWO TS server in the waiting for a team dropship. You will be on the winning/earning path in a few minutes.

you obviously havent done this so let me break it down.

7 to 8 minute win 110 to 125 cbills non founder. This is a quick and easy win.

2 minute run to the enemy and get toasted while blasting once or twice 60k loss.

2 or 3 of these currently can be played in the same time. These amounts are guaranteed, a win is not.

Krivvan, on 31 October 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

It was "very common". Up to the point where every single game of a day was a 8-0 to 8-2 stomp. After 1 or 2 deaths on one team it was rare for the winning team to ever get a loss after that.

Close 6-8 or 7-8 games were a nice rarity.

This is all because even missing a single mech is a gigantic disadvantage for a team. So a single mech suiciding off drastically reduces the team's chance of even getting out of a stomp PUG or not.

its true that most matches are one sided. That being said until the loophole is closed for this it will be even worse than normal with all the suiciders looking for quick bucks. and the new players who dont read why this is going on just think to themselves "man this game is always one sided, it sucks im out of here."

PGI really shot themselves in the foot.

[StickEGreen]

Cool, I think you're the first person to have thought of this.

[Krivvan]

Riffleman, on 31 October 2012 - 04:19 AM, said:

its true that most matches are one sided. That being said until the loophole is closed for this it will be even worse than normal with all the suiciders looking for quick bucks. and the new players who dont read why this is going on just think to themselves "man this game is always one sided, it sucks im out of here."

PGI really shot themselves in the foot.

I agree with you on this. Although I don't think it was actually PGI's decision to go to Open Beta.

[RH7N0]

I thought the joy is in the journey, not in the 'death spamming fo' cash '. If you catch my drift.