10 replies to this topic

[Mattressi]

I'm wondering how hit detection is performed for the different weapon types - whether it's clientside or serverside.

In Tribes Ascend, hitscan weapons were clientside; ballistic (projectile automatics) weapons were shown firing clientside, but hit detection was serverside (making it very difficult to work out whther you were hitting or not if you had a high ping); and explosive projectile weapons were fully serverside, where you would click to fire and it wouldn't fire on your screen (or in game) until the server had received and sent the firing information.

MWO seems to have similar weapon types. Lasers are hitscan, ballistics are projectiles and explosives/missiles are explosives. Do they have the same hit detection as TA? I'm kind of hoping that hitscan weapons are clientside and that ballistic weapons are fully serverside (not firing until the server has sent back information to you, meaning that the firing appears delayed, but any hits you see are actual hits). I'm also thinking that missiles are surely serverside, right?

I ask because I'm in Australia and usually have around 250 ping. I seem to do relatively ok, but I've only been using the trial mechs. I've mostly decided on my first mech choice, but I thought I should check how hit detection works first. Basically, I want to make sure that I won't be heavily disadvantaged by picking one weapon type over another (like how ballistic/auto playerrs in TA are massively disadvantaged if their ping is high). Anyone know how this works? Is there one weapon type which will be way better for a high ping player? I'm very good at compensating for lag, so long as hits are serverside for projectile weapons (I need to be able to see what is actually happening, rather than see myself shoot exactly when I click to shoot).

[Mattressi]

I checked the "Posting Etiquette" thread and it didn't say anything about bumping. So, I'm going to bump this post because I'd really like to know how hit detection works (as I said, it's very important for choosing my play style, given my ping). If bumping isn't allowed, feel free to delete my post (or thread, if you must).

[Fury]

As far as i'm aware everything is done serverside as an anti-cheating measure. Had a quick look around but couldn't find a solid explanation. It'd be nice to know the full details on this. I like ballistic weapons but I know if my 'net is playing up it's almost impossible to hit things, since I live in the UK.

[Thorqemada]

AFAIK everything is serverside - Lasers visually hitting clientside is no proof of doing damage to the opponent - only when their health percentage goes down, or the target damage indicator shows damage you successful hit the enemy.

Edited by Thorqemada, 01 November 2012 - 06:26 AM.

[telomere]

Everything is server-authoritative as far as hit detection goes. Lasers are client-side for graphics (your screen will show them firing as soon as you click the button), but seeing a hit with lasers does *not* mean you get a hit in the game. This includes client-side hit effects such as glowing armour and explosions. The only reliable indicators are your hit indicator (cursor turns red), and the enemy's armour readout in the targeting window.

Ballistics appear to be server-side in firing as well as hit detection. You will notice a delay between clicking your mouse and seeing the projectile leave the weapon. However seeing a hit on your screen is still not *quite* a guarantee of a hit. It's much more reliable than lasers though. Just watch that hit indicator.

LRMs and SSRMs are the most reliable weapons when playing with high ping. LRM hit detection appears to be fully server side. You'll sometimes see kill messages for dying mechs before your client shows the LRMs hitting their target. LRMs are reliable, but remember that you need to keep lock for the whole flight time, and also be aware that light mechs can dodge some of your LRMs. SSRMs sometimes need to be fired with lead of around 20-30 degrees; they are not quite a guaranteed hit. SRMs I'm not sure about, to be honest I haven't used them much as their spread is horrendous. They have firing lag similar to ballistics, so I expect their hit detection works similarly.

The difficulties with hit detection is affecting everyone right now, even those with sub-100 ping. If they do manage to fix it, I seriously hope it doesn't end up screwing over high-ping players in the process, otherwise we might find ourselves relegated to LRM duties only.

[Apoc1138]

everything is done serverside, the client takes a "best guess" on what other players are doing in the abscence of actual info, which is why sometimes you can fire and appear to hit the target but they take no damage, you have to take a best guess on where the server thinks the other player is and shoot there, instead of where it actually appears to be

netcode is a known issue and they are in the process of hiring new people specifically to work on it

[Rae Ven]

I too am Australian, and have found it almost impossible to use any ballistic weapon or PPCs. I've played around a bit and decided that I'm most likely to hit enemies using lasers, often it involves me having to aim ahead of an enemy to hit them which is especially hard to do against fast 'Mechs.

The thing that bothers me is that when I fire my lasers, there's no delay and the beams instantly fire, but anything else there's a delay before I hear my weapon firing. Being an FPS player, I've found it easier to play with high ping if I can always hear my gun firing before the shots actually come out.

One game that deals with all this interestingly is C&C: Renegade, even projectiles are fired client side, and if said projectile hits something it will do damage - even if the player on the receiving end of the projectile saw the projectile clearly miss. I should point out that all but 5 weapons fire projectiles instead of hitscan (even machine guns). But personally I think it's the best way to help compensate for high ping players, with projectile firing weapons.

[Extinction]

Thorqemada, on 01 November 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

AFAIK everything is serverside - Lasers visually hitting clientside is no proof of doing damage to the opponent - only when they health percentage goes down, or the target damage indicator shows damage you successful hit the enemy.

Yep true!
You will sometimes wonder why an enemy can sustain so much damage before going down. Its probably cause of high pings. Happend to me too where i was hitting a Dragon 7 times with 4 med lasers into an cracked open center-Torso. And the internals moved just barely to orange.

[Monkey Bone]

If you have high ping, you have to lead your target (even with lasers!). If the target you're firing has high ping, you have to lead your target.

[Mattressi]

Thank you so much, everyone! I always thought lasers just didn't do very much damage (since I would see the enemy's armour glowing when I hit them, I assumed I'd actually hit them). I tried playing the trial Dragon mech and was able to consistently land AC5 hits on enemy mechs (as I said, I'm quite good at compensating for lag after playing so many games on US servers - I just need to be able to know that any hits I see are real hits). Unfortunately the trial Dragon seems to suck quite a bit, but it was nice to know I was actually doing some damage. I think I might stick to ballistics for now. LRMs just don't excite me and I find it very difficult to hit close range with SRMs (well, on lights at least). I always thought lasers would be my best bet because I assumed that any visible enemy damage that I saw was real damage. Now that I know it isn't, I might actually be able to hit close lights.

Thanks very much, again, it really helped my build decisions.

[Thorqemada]

If you encounter often Light Mechs and experience the Hit Detection/Lag issues hurt your performance significant its a good solution to equip SSRM2 - shortrange guided missiles that will make the live of Lights much more complicated