18 replies to this topic

[Elder Thorn]

To whine about something different than LRMs:

So - is it intended, that you have absolutly no chance of avoiding streaks anymore or am i just missing anything?
I used to be able to outcircle an enemy light armed with streaks, when piloting a light myself.
Now i can't do **** - commandos streaks seem to hit even if i am running full speed arround him at 30 meters range.

Am i doing it wrong (even if doing it without problems before) or have they been changed?

[Melcyna]

Not that i know of...

what DOES happen in the recent patch is that the game's interpolation and visual representation of the mech location is messed up massively... which resulted in the light mech 'lag shield' and your actual position as the server thinks you should be (which is where the LRM and Streak will home towards) are rather screwed right now compared to before...

I suspect that this same problem is at least partly involved in what gave rise to the LRM ghosting through cover problem...

ie: you think you are somewhere else than what the server think you are, in this case the server considers you a second or so lagging behind where you believe you ought to be.

Assuming this theory has any truth (we don't know given we don't have the details of their netcode or interpolation mechanism and we don't even know what exactly went wrong with it), then it's possible that you are being hit by the streak simply because the actual location where you are according to the server is not as hard to hit by the streak. Let's say you are on his flank according to your screen, the streak fired then would need to make a near 90 degree turn to hit you, but if the server says you are only at 11 or 1 o'clock from his facing, then the streak probably will hit you still.

Note that the visual effect and sound etc being shown and heard in your client does NOT always match with what is happening (and this includes any hit, even laser hits). So in your screen it would appear as though the streak made an extreme turn tracking you even though in reality it may not have actually made such turn.

[TigaShark]

Commando 2A... 3 streaks, 2 of them are mounted on the left arm, 1 Centre Torso. So yeah, that and any other mech that mounts missiles on the arms can probably track and maintain a lock no matter how tightly you circle.... its one of the main advantages of a Commando over the Jenner or Raven, in the Light interception role its extremely effective. The 3A and 1D are also decently effective if you fir dual streaks. Bottom line is if your a Jenner pilot, think twice about going solo against a 2A... the 3A and 1D are also decently effective but the COM-2A is Jenner Kryptonite  

Edited by TigaShark, 31 October 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[socialSavant]

TigaShark, on 31 October 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

Commando 2A... 3 streaks, 2 of them are mounted on the left arm, 1 Centre Torso. So yeah, that and any other mech that mounts missiles on the arms can probably track and maintain a lock no matter how tightly you circle.... its one of the main advantages of a Commando over the Jenner or Raven, in the Light interception role its extremely effective. The 3A and 1D are also decently effective if you fir dual streaks. Bottom line is if your a Jenner pilot, think twice about going solo against a 2A... the 3A and 1D are also decently effective but the COM-2A is Jenner Kryptonite

At that rate, it is kryptonite for more than just a Jenner. If it is that hard to hit and shoots anything powerful which is that hard to miss with, then even Mediums and Heavies have to watch out. Seems a bit broken to me.

BTW Elder Thorn, I have had very similar experiences and thoughts since the new patch. I have also noticed that it is suddenly very popular to outfit EVERY Light Mech with missiles. I always look at the trends before I claim Nerf/Broke and am beginning to see a pattern...

Edited by socialSavant, 31 October 2012 - 08:20 PM.

[TigaShark]

socialSavant, on 31 October 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

At that rate, it is kryptonite for more than just a Jenner. If it is that hard to hit and shoots anything powerful which is that hard to miss with, then even Mediums and Heavies have to watch out. Seems a bit broken to me.

BTW Elder Thorn, I have had very similar experiences and thoughts since the new patch. I have also noticed that it is suddenly very popular to outfit EVERY Light Mech with missiles. I always look at the trends before I claim Nerf/Broke and am beginning to see a pattern...

The main issue fighting mediums and heavies is also one of the balancing factors piloting ANY light using weapons that use ammunition, youll quickly run out of ammo killing heavier mercs and essentially mission kill yourself because running out of ammo is virtually the same as death..
That combined with a single lucky shot being capable of ruining your day means SSRM lights are balanced.

SSRM Commando 2a fits a niche, it does one thing EXTREMELY well which is, chasing down and killing other light mechs. However in the absence of almost all of the other tech which exists in the mechwarrior universe specific for keeping scouts alive and undetected (ECM, Stealth Armor etc) , its one of the only roles the commando does well at.

SSRM2's dont hit that hard, the damage is the equivalent of a single shot from a medium laser, they gain accuracy, but pay a price in weight, setup time and have limited ammo, what they DO do well is allow you to maintain high speed and evade while laying down accurate fire.

"Speed is life" which is why any weapon that is reliable at high speeds is going to be popular for light mercs. Lights dont have the luxury of 30-40 tons of frontal armor to allow them to "sit still and take a few hits" while aiming lasers/gauss/ppc to ensure maxmimum effect

It comes down to actually playing a chassis type versus watching one being piloted... what often seems "easy" as a spectator is usually far harder in practice.

"I see lots of Atlas' using large lasers" so "Large Lasers must be OP" is a very weak argument

Edited by TigaShark, 31 October 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[Melcyna]

socialSavant, on 31 October 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

I have also noticed that it is suddenly very popular to outfit EVERY Light Mech with missiles. I always look at the trends before I claim Nerf/Broke and am beginning to see a pattern...

It's the side effect of the broken interpolation, and hit detection...

it is NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to accurately hit a light mech through their lag shield for quite a number of ppl...

the only weapon that can hit reliably and not affected by the broken interpolation right now (not affected to the same degree anyway) are the guided weapons...

Hence why ppl r packing streak and LRM like no tomorrow, not just on light... but any mech that can pack a missile slot will be jamming as much of either one of the two guided weapon because it's about the only way to hit other players reliably when they are in motion especially if they are quite fast.

[TigaShark]

Elder Thorn, on 31 October 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Am i doing it wrong (even if doing it without problems before) or have they been changed?

Basically, yes... if your not fitted for light hunting...dont hunt lights. Lasers work better vs big targets , if you fit lots of lasers, go the harassment role. If you fit SRM 4's and 6's, play "surprise backstabber". If you fit SSRM2's and small lasers... THEN your at the very least minimally equipped to dogfight and hunt light units.

Think of the typical WW2 scenario, american pilots that tried to dogfight with the japanese AM6-Zero died in droves. Eventually the americans adopted wingman tactics and also high speed, head on, straiffing runs, basically using their higher speed to close on the enemy, fire...then zoom away before receiving return fire.

Similar applies if your fighting a mech which is lighter and more maneuverable, dogfighting isnt the best strategy.

[Argent Usher]

Honestly i've never seen a Comm who has killed me solo as Jenner pilot.

A "normal" JR7-D has 4 Small + 2 SSRM + AMS, need probably only 2-3 well placed volleys from midair and a Comm goes dark orange and then the most players start to run away (stupidest decision). A Jenner beneficial uses the terrain as cover and the "new" boost to the JJ helps too.

Only worse ping + FPS of a Jenner helps a Comm to have a chance to win.

Edited by Argent Usher, 31 October 2012 - 10:30 PM.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Argent Usher, on 31 October 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

Honestly i've never seen a Comm who has killed me solo as Jenner pilot.

A "normal" JR7-D has 4 Small + 2 SSRM + AMS, need probably only 2-3 well placed volleys from midair and a Comm goes dark orange and then the most players start to run away (stupidest decision). A Jenner beneficial uses the terrain as cover and the "new" boost to the JJ helps too.

Only worse ping + FPS of a Jenner helps a Comm to have a chance to win.

So using SSRMs against a bad commando pilot with SSRMS is effective?

Thanks for that revelation.


Now try it with a JR7-F and enjoy getting your salad tossed by any Commando pilot that has a pulse.

[Rainlyte]

TigaShark, on 31 October 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

SSRM Commando 2a fits a niche, it does one thing EXTREMELY well which is, chasing down and killing other light mechs. However in the absence of almost all of the other tech which exists in the mechwarrior universe specific for keeping scouts alive and undetected (ECM, Stealth Armor etc) , its one of the only roles the commando does well at.

This is a good point. SSRMs are reliable and useful for high speed fights, but not particularly powerful. I've been trying the 2D a bit (which is what I think you guys meant by 2A, the one with 3 missile points), and it seems pretty good at taking out other lights but that's about it. I've even encountered a jenner (the heavily armored variant) that just refused to die after what felt like several minutes of me bombarding him. Finally his commando friend came and they finished me off despite the fact that I had barely taken any hits until his friend showed up due to outmaneuvering.

Remember that the commando has very little tonnage to work with, it needs some curiosity like the extra missile point, and a good situational weapon such as the SSRM, to let it fill an interesting role, lest it'll just be gimped and underused.

Edited by Zo San, 01 November 2012 - 01:13 AM.

[TigaShark]

A commando is more than a match for a Jenner as long as your not fitted for fighting heavies. The main tactic against Jenners is to run across their guns and use the extreme angle shots, basically that little angle of fire you have over the Jenner on its flanks is enough to make it very difficult for a jenner pilot to land "good" shots or maintain lock... The commando on the other hand has a much easier time keeping lock and landing hits with pulses even at extreme angles (again due to it having PROPER arms it can keep guns on target longer)

Fully Upgraded Com 1D and 3A can both pack 2 med pulse+2SSRM ~2 tons ammo +AMS, full armor (or very close to it) and have "enough" speed to give any lights trouble (100 kmh+ with the default 150std engine once elite).... The Jenner trades some capability vs lights for armor and firepower...and its hands down a better *scout* due to the jump jets... HOWEVER discounting the commando as a superb "anti-light" mech is definitely a mistake.... thats the nice thing about this game, every mech has a role (or niche) it does well.

Edited by TigaShark, 01 November 2012 - 01:39 AM.

[Claviger]

TigaShark, on 01 November 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

A commando is more than a match for a Jenner as long as your not fitted for fighting heavies. The main tactic against Jenners is to run across their guns and use the extreme angle shots, basically that little angle of fire you have over the Jenner on its flanks is enough to make it very difficult for a jenner pilot to land "good" shots or maintain lock... The commando on the other hand has a much easier time keeping lock and landing hits with pulses even at extreme angles (again due to it having PROPER arms it can keep guns on target longer)

Fully Upgraded Com 1D and 3A can both pack 2 med pulse+2SSRM ~2 tons ammo +AMS, full armor (or very close to it) and have "enough" speed to give any lights trouble (100 kmh+ with the default 150std engine once elite).... The Jenner trades some capability vs lights for armor and firepower...and its hands down a better *scout* due to the jump jets... HOWEVER discounting the commando as a superb "anti-light" mech is definitely a mistake.... thats the nice thing about this game, every mech has a role (or niche) it does well.

This, if you have a decent commando pilot attacking a less skilled jenner pilot, the commando will dominate it.

Generally this is why I will go after a commando over anything when in a jenner if its got the 3 srm setup fitted. They die very easily.

Edited by Claviger, 01 November 2012 - 03:02 AM.

[Claviger]

Melcyna, on 31 October 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

I can't shoot so I use streaks and LRMs

Learn to aim

[Elder Thorn]

TigaShark, on 31 October 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

Commando 2A... 3 streaks, 2 of them are mounted on the left arm, 1 Centre Torso. So yeah, that and any other mech that mounts missiles on the arms can probably track and maintain a lock no matter how tightly you circle.... its one of the main advantages of a Commando over the Jenner or Raven, in the Light interception role its extremely effective. The 3A and 1D are also decently effective if you fir dual streaks. Bottom line is if your a Jenner pilot, think twice about going solo against a 2A... the 3A and 1D are also decently effective but the COM-2A is Jenner Kryptonite

i would agree, and even think this is a good thing, if not the same problem occoured from a Hunchback raping me

I think Melcyna might be right here.

Melcyna, on 31 October 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Not that i know of...

what DOES happen in the recent patch is that the game's interpolation and visual representation of the mech location is messed up massively... which resulted in the light mech 'lag shield' and your actual position as the server thinks you should be (which is where the LRM and Streak will home towards) are rather screwed right now compared to before...

I suspect that this same problem is at least partly involved in what gave rise to the LRM ghosting through cover problem...

ie: you think you are somewhere else than what the server think you are, in this case the server considers you a second or so lagging behind where you believe you ought to be.

Assuming this theory has any truth (we don't know given we don't have the details of their netcode or interpolation mechanism and we don't even know what exactly went wrong with it), then it's possible that you are being hit by the streak simply because the actual location where you are according to the server is not as hard to hit by the streak. Let's say you are on his flank according to your screen, the streak fired then would need to make a near 90 degree turn to hit you, but if the server says you are only at 11 or 1 o'clock from his facing, then the streak probably will hit you still.

Note that the visual effect and sound etc being shown and heard in your client does NOT always match with what is happening (and this includes any hit, even laser hits). So in your screen it would appear as though the streak made an extreme turn tracking you even though in reality it may not have actually made such turn.

[Exilyth]

Running a streakmando, sometimes I can keep lock when circling an enemy by keeping my crosshairs on the edge of the screen. Don't know if this is intended behaviour, though. Seems to happen randomly... sometimes it does, sometimes not.

[Elder Thorn]

Claviger, on 01 November 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

Learn to aim

learn to read and understand

[VoraciousPuma]

The streaks do seem impossible to avoid, even when running around at 136kph.

[GeneralFitzhugh]

TigaShark, on 31 October 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

The main issue fighting mediums and heavies is also one of the balancing factors piloting ANY light using weapons that use ammunition, youll quickly run out of ammo killing heavier mercs and essentially mission kill yourself because running out of ammo is virtually the same as death..
That combined with a single lucky shot being capable of ruining your day means SSRM lights are balanced.

SSRM Commando 2a fits a niche, it does one thing EXTREMELY well which is, chasing down and killing other light mechs. However in the absence of almost all of the other tech which exists in the mechwarrior universe specific for keeping scouts alive and undetected (ECM, Stealth Armor etc) , its one of the only roles the commando does well at.

SSRM2's dont hit that hard, the damage is the equivalent of a single shot from a medium laser, they gain accuracy, but pay a price in weight, setup time and have limited ammo, what they DO do well is allow you to maintain high speed and evade while laying down accurate fire.

"Speed is life" which is why any weapon that is reliable at high speeds is going to be popular for light mercs. Lights dont have the luxury of 30-40 tons of frontal armor to allow them to "sit still and take a few hits" while aiming lasers/gauss/ppc to ensure maxmimum effect

It comes down to actually playing a chassis type versus watching one being piloted... what often seems "easy" as a spectator is usually far harder in practice.

"I see lots of Atlas' using large lasers" so "Large Lasers must be OP" is a very weak argument

Elder Thorn, on 31 October 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

To whine about something different than LRMs:

So - is it intended, that you have absolutly no chance of avoiding streaks anymore or am i just missing anything?
I used to be able to outcircle an enemy light armed with streaks, when piloting a light myself.
Now i can't do **** - commandos streaks seem to hit even if i am running full speed arround him at 30 meters range.

Am i doing it wrong (even if doing it without problems before) or have they been changed?

I am going to have to agree with Tigershark on this one. Streak SRMs on a light are actually pretty limited, I have two of them mounted on my Jenner and can only carry a single load of missles with an endo steel and armout upgrades and I had to downgrade the 4 medium lasers to small.

In this game, as in life, you have to adapt to what you are presented with. Btw, a hunback with 6 small lasers=death.

[Chuckie]

Elder Thorn, on 31 October 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

So - is it intended, that you have absolutly no chance of avoiding streaks anymore or am i just missing anything?
I used to be able to outcircle an enemy light armed with streaks, when piloting a light myself.
Now i can't do **** - commandos streaks seem to hit even if i am running full speed arround him at 30 meters range.

Am i doing it wrong (even if doing it without problems before) or have they been changed?

Commandos have Arms and good pilots know how to use them.

In the 2A the streaks are in the arms.. So they can be fired and targets from the side of the Mech.. Nothing wrong with that..

Its one of the benefits of the Commando design over the Raven/Jenner/Cicada/etc..

BTW trust me they miss.. sometimes More than a few good Jenner pilots have dodged my SSRMs..

Edited by Chuckie, 01 November 2012 - 11:15 AM.