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Laugh Riot: 10x PuG Matches vs. 10x Premade Matches


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#1 Felbombling

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:53 PM

I thought I’d give you a quick rundown of how my evening went with a goal in mind. Play ten matches solo in a Trial Centurion and then ten matches with a premade group over TS3 in the exact same Mech. Mind you, I have played very minimally in the last few months. I really enjoy group play, due to the camaraderie, but I more or less got bored with the easy victories. Yes, I have been a bit of a jerk on the forums, trumpeting the strength of premade groups and their threat to new players. Sorry to anyone who came away offended by that, but I honestly worry about turning players away from the game. The current situation is beyond our control at this point, so might as well enjoy ourselves, right? At any rate…

I played the same style all twenty matches… I hung back and used my LRMs and Large Laser, unless I got rushed or saw a golden opportunity to press the enemy. As you will see, I did not do amazingly well with the kills/deaths ratios, but I did the best I could with what I had. I would say I averaged about 250 damage dealt each match, considering the odd 24 damage total due to LRM spam incoming or the 350 damage extended round, as we all will have from time to time. Premade or no, when you’re in a Trial Mech and you get cornered by a tweaked Mech, it is pretty much lights out. You can do all you can, but overheating is an issue in a knife fight. Two Medium Lasers and a Large Laser [you tend to use in desperation] will keep the overheat warning on constantly. I can honestly say self-preservation is an issue, as I shut down a handful of times. It is so hard to lay off the trigger when you’re badly outgunned by something fast and nasty.

10x PuG matches

I honestly didn’t encounter too many obvious premade groups, which I found surprising. It is much harder to spot them now, considering the non-Founders joining groups over voice software with greater frequency than in Beta. The only indication that you are up against a premade would be quickly lopsided scores, or the tweaked out Mechs dominating the field in coordinated rushes. I think I saw about three obvious premade groups, as we were spammed over the All channel looking for recruits. Otherwise the only real indication would be an 8-2 score and five Founders badges on the final scoreboard, but that assumes too much. No instances of heckling or mockery that I saw in the ten matches, either, so enjoyable, despite the results.

2 wins
8 losses

2 kills, 19 assists.
8 deaths

717, 720 C-Bills in earnings.

10x Premade matches

I hopped into the No Guts No Galaxy TS3 server and almost immediately got picked up with another player. We formed a 3 man unit and played together for about three games. We used minimal communication with each other… more along the lines of, “I’ll cover your back for you, Mr. slow lumbering Atlas, buddeh.” As the matches got into the four to six rounds we’d pick up another player here or there. By the time we hit match seven we were a full eight man premade, and continued on like that to the tenth match. At about the six-eight player point we started to formulate strategy, but most of the talk was about Steve Nash getting injured or how pathetic the Lakers look right now, not much “Focus Target Charlie.” It was very relaxed and laid back… good times.

10 wins
0 losses

5 kills, 31 assists
1 death

908,800 C-Bills in earnings.


Being on such a roll, I decided I just couldn’t leave this group. I rather enjoy the camaraderie while meeting new people. Besides, going 10-0 is a ton more fun than going 2-8. Everyone was really nice and laid-back, and I more or less held my end of the bargain by chipping in good damage totals, despite my low kill totals. We lost some players and gained new ones. When the group almost disbanded we hopped up to another channel with an equal number of four players and made another eight player group. Just as much fun and laid back as the last group, so good times were had by all.

Premade totals for the evening

26 wins
2 losses **

8 kills
5 deaths

2,449,200 C-Bills in earnings.

** We had a massive lag spike and didn’t realize our base was getting captured until it was ten seconds from being turned… bummer on that one. The second loss we suffered through two d/c’d players, so while we should count that as legit, nobody wanted to. :(

So, playing premade was everything I remember it being in Beta. Even with minimal communications over voice software, the benefits are obvious. I was pretty quiet for the majority of the matches, but did follow instructions to focus fire with my LRMs when called upon, or called out flankers, etc. Trial Mechs are not very much fun at all, and I long for the day when I can afford a Cataphract. I am not sure how effective the LRM 10 is against AMS, but it doesn’t seem very strong. Once in close the Centurion is more or less restricted to the two Medium Lasers, which can be brutal against something really tweaked out with multiple weapons and the heat sinks to use them. Normally I’d be discouraged by my kill/death totals, but there is only so much you can do, even picking away at weakened locations. If not for my experiences with my own tweaked out Mechs in Beta, I’d be downright miserable right now, but I know that excellent kill/death ratios are within my grasp, so no mockery of my results from tonight, you elitist punkaroos!!

As a final note, I have argued on the forums, even today to the vengeful wrath of some Founders, that the premade groups are way too powerful, given all the perks that they have and the lack of an effective matchmaking system. I’d love to see PGI make the Trial Mechs a fallback position in the event of financial ruin, instead of the introductory vehicle to Mech combat that they are right now. Give the players something to call their own, tweak and advance in. I would find the game 10x more enjoyable that way, and would be prompted to spend money in the future. As it is, the best way to generate C-Bills is to join a group and have fun. PuG groups can be fun, too, but I suspect strongly that they are much more fun for players who have the resources to already own a Mech of their own that they can modify to their liking.

*** Edit: Added assist totals for clarity. ***

Edited by StaggerCheck, 01 November 2012 - 10:50 AM.


#2 Martini Henrie

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:00 PM

Nice and balanced, good report.

#3 Krivvan

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:28 PM

I'm not questioning your honesty, but how many groups actually advertised in chat looking for recruits? I have actually yet to see it once since the start of the OB and I'm starting to think I'm just very oblivious.

#4 geop

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:31 PM

strange, i played about 20 pug matches with quite a good win/loss ratio. never saw a premade group.

pls stop

#5 Lavrenti

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:33 PM

View PostKrivvan, on 31 October 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

... how many groups actually advertised in chat looking for recruits? I have actually yet to see it once since the start of the OB ...


Might depend what time you're on. I've seen it a fair few times, and if you encounter a premade they'll often put up a link to their website.

#6 zverofaust

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:34 PM

I see two things here. First, playing solo sucks incredi-balls; 2 wins 8 losses vs 10 straight wins in a group. That sucks hardcore.

Second thing I see is the amount of money you made as solo losing 8 games vs winning 10 seems WAY TOO CLOSE. What the heck, difference of only less than 200k c-bills over 10 games? That seems a little off.

#7 Felbombling

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:45 PM

View PostKrivvan, on 31 October 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

I'm not questioning your honesty, but how many groups actually advertised in chat looking for recruits? I have actually yet to see it once since the start of the OB and I'm starting to think I'm just very oblivious.


I remember seeing three. One before match start and two just before match end. I started around 7:00pm Pacific time, which might explain the higher number of premade groups. As I said in the article, I will only commit to three premade groups, but cannot say their make-up. While there could possibly be other premade groups among the seven other matches, it would be pure speculation. There were lopsided scores, tweaked out Mechs and organized tactics in multiple matches.

View Postgeop, on 31 October 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

strange, i played about 20 pug matches with quite a good win/loss ratio. never saw a premade group.

pls stop


Weak-sauce.


View Postzverofaust, on 31 October 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

I see two things here. First, playing solo sucks incredi-balls; 2 wins 8 losses vs 10 straight wins in a group. That sucks hardcore.

Second thing I see is the amount of money you made as solo losing 8 games vs winning 10 seems WAY TOO CLOSE. What the heck, difference of only less than 200k c-bills over 10 games? That seems a little off.


I'm having a hard time understanding that, as well. My best guess would be capture victories vs. clean sweeps, but I killed off Mechs at a .5 clip in the premade matches, so it is hard to figure. Those were the numbers, though.

#8 Xelrah

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:57 PM

Of all games that I played in premade (around 60-70 since OB started) I didn't lose once, so either we didn't fight any premade (I somehow doubt) or ones that we fought were rather bad. Considering most of premades are just a bunch of random players with voice comm I wouldn't be surprised if some of premades weren't much better than pubs.

Weren't you supposed to leave zverofaust?

#9 gun cat

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:08 AM

Shocking it's almost like this game was meant to be played as part of a team, or something. The game is still in Beta, with a long development schedule, so the matchmaking system will change. Pretty sure they already laid out a rough plan for this.. Maybe they can even add a solo queue, if people really want to avoid running into premades, or a similar system in the future..

I disagree on the trial mechs. They are certainly useful from what I've seen in teaching the basics, and instilling heat management is REALLY important. Because it is. I think people might be missing something here. Mainly, the developers want you in actually invest some time in the game. Once you've played a number of hours and find something you like doing, you can then invest in that. If that is too much work you, or you know what you want, you can skip the process and use MC, or expedite the premium time boosts and such. Because, PGI still has to pay the bills. The actual metrics of this probably need some tweaking, but I think people need to understand the intent behind the system.

To zverofaust, As far as income disparity (or lack thereof) goes, an important thing to note is that he wasn't using his own mech, so he wasn't paying for repairs and rearming. If he had been, his net income would have been much lower overall when he was losing. If you are soloing and farming for cash, I would say first, you are playing the game wrong, Secondly, losing should be more of a hindrance to advancing, a "stumble" versus "tripping, then rolling off a hill into a ravine". If losing income were considerably lower, using your own mech, especially with expensive equipment, would be unsustainable, potentially.

Edited by gun cat, 01 November 2012 - 12:12 AM.


#10 627

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:29 AM

premade != premade

It's a difference if you run into an 8man team that plays together regulary or a "TS3-PUG" like described above.
And beyond that, there are premades without voice.

I tried a different strategy yesterday, instead of writing something funny or a battle cry in chat, i just wrote "anyone interested in teamplay?"
and i usually got 1-2 answers. I played with these and took them up after the match, essentially forming a "premade" without voice com. After a few matches we were 4 guys and coordinated us over the team chat only. We played well and won some matches. And then there was "Team player" who announced they were mostly premades.
Soooo.... we lost. 8-0 or 8-1, not sure.
We played some other rounds, and there were losses too. So not every "premade" is a pug stomper.

#11 EDMW CSN

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:35 AM

Looking good there mate :rolleyes:

#12 Yukichan

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

15 or so PuG matches yesterday 2 losses, average of 4-5 kills a match, 1 death.
Day before about same matches in TS3 groups 1 loss, average of 2 kills a match, 1 death.

oo just noticed they added the stats page back, was hoping they would leave it out till MM was completed.

will have to SS it when i get home from work but.

74 / 2
Kills / Death
26 / 3
Wins / Losses

1,355.93Avg. XP Per Match

Edited by Yukichan, 01 November 2012 - 01:00 AM.


#13 Felbombling

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:17 AM

View PostYukichan, on 01 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

15 or so PuG matches yesterday 2 losses, average of 4-5 kills a match, 1 death.
Day before about same matches in TS3 groups 1 loss, average of 2 kills a match, 1 death.

oo just noticed they added the stats page back, was hoping they would leave it out till MM was completed.

will have to SS it when i get home from work but.

74 / 2
Kills / Death
26 / 3
Wins / Losses

1,355.93Avg. XP Per Match


Hey there Yuki. I think I've played with you in Beta. What Mech were you in when you were collecting those massive kill totals?

#14 Felbombling

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:24 AM

View Post627, on 01 November 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

I tried a different strategy yesterday, instead of writing something funny or a battle cry in chat, i just wrote "anyone interested in teamplay?"
and i usually got 1-2 answers. I played with these and took them up after the match, essentially forming a "premade" without voice com. After a few matches we were 4 guys and coordinated us over the team chat only. We played well and won some matches. And then there was "Team player" who announced they were mostly premades.
Soooo.... we lost. 8-0 or 8-1, not sure.
We played some other rounds, and there were losses too. So not every "premade" is a pug stomper.


That is a great idea for people not wishing to use voice chat for some reason. Another idea might be to ask in chat if there are any premade elements within the team. Just following their lead could be quite beneficial.

#15 scius

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:33 AM

Hey Stagger! Nice write-up! That was fun yesterday.

I still can't believe that "BASE UNDER ATTACK" warning didn't pop up for us in one of the matches. I think we were all surprised by that. xD

#16 Kyrie

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:36 AM

One thing I have noticed is that for me, playing in a VoIP chat group makes me play more responsibly. Even if our team doesn't even use the chat much, it improves my own performance by a significant margin.

1) In a PUG, my situational-awareness drops, largely because I assume that it will not make a difference no matter what I do (negative attitude on my part)

2) In a PUG, typing in combat is next to impossible -- this creates too many barriers to communication in both a real and psychological sense. This reinforces #1.

However, I have been working on trying to improve my situational-awareness when playing PUGs. When I really make the effort, my performance does improve; its just that much harder compared to the EZ-mode of TS3 grouping.

#17 3rdworld

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:37 AM

In 28 premade matches you got 8 kills. Even with odds heavily in your favor you average .28 kills per game.

Does anyone see a problem here?

#18 Cragger

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:40 AM

Getting a 'kill' only means you got the last hit in on the opponent in a HP based system. A far more accurate measurement to use is XP since it factors in damage, spotting, component destruction, base capture. etc.

#19 Felbombling

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:41 AM

View Postscius, on 01 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

Hey Stagger! Nice write-up! That was fun yesterday.

I still can't believe that "BASE UNDER ATTACK" warning didn't pop up for us in one of the matches. I think we were all surprised by that. xD


You guys were. I couldn't see through the lag spike. I fired off about 150 LRMs and collected 23 damage at the end of the round. lol

Good playing with you last night, Scius.

#20 3rdworld

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:43 AM

View PostCragger, on 01 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Getting a 'kill' only means you got the last hit in on the opponent in a HP based system. A far more accurate measurement to use is XP since it factors in damage, spotting, component destruction, base capture. etc.


I disagree. That may effect it in a short term, but over 28 matches you want me to believe that someone takes his kill 72% of the time?

Or is it more likely he is getting carried in the premade and the pug is unable to do the same. Thus worse pug results than others that have posted?

Edited by 3rdworld, 01 November 2012 - 09:44 AM.






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