21 replies to this topic

[Pz_DC]

Hi all. In past 5-7 years i have played only in online games. And we all know what is main problem of it - cheaters. Not balance issues, not low connection speed etc etc etc. Cheaters. People, thinking they are smarter, better then others so they can play with ther own rules. Those guys makes all mad, makes us cry, forces us to stop playing "this stupid game where 90% of players cheat". Well, we all know... i hope we all know well enoth what this problem is.

My suggestions are wery simple:
1)make "blacklist" like WoW have - if You see cheater, or any other annonying person, You can just add him into "blacklist" so you will no longer can enter same game as this blacklisted person. No more reports, no more work - it was done once and you can forget about it. Simple, effective, easy to do. Dream of any player (and developer
2)That was the 1st part. Here comes the 2nd. We all are different players. Most of registerd here atm are know what to do with ther mech' and, maybe, even some more But when MWO will launch, there will be tons of noobies who dont even know what is PPC and how it works. There are allways be some of those guys. There are allways will be some of other guys, who play worse, better and same as You. Do you want to play with those all? Not realy - no fun of being owned by players who can shoot you down faster then you can realise that you got an enemy; no fun in game where all other players dont know what to do and how to do it. Most of players enjoy when ther enemy and ther teammates are same level of skill as they are. Same time, you cant just ban all newbies/pro's. So we need simple and effective filtering - like % of death/kills. So players with same % d/k will play together. We realy need this filter

I've done. Only two requests, becouse dev's are going well enoth and im sure that we will see intresting and balanced game. But if YOU want enjoy it all the time - please ask, pray, cry, give 'em a money or do all what You can to force dev's to do those two, simple, features in this game. Please. At last post here again and again so it will be at the top all the time Or just lock it at the top of the page

P.S. 1)sorry for bad english - its not my native language and i has no practice for a long time. 2)Sorry if same reqests was posted somewhere around, possible i've missed it.

Edited by MGA121285, 08 April 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

What I want to see is a filter to dis-allow teams that insist on calling their team "Clan whatever we want" from entering into MWO. This is, after all, a MW game with only four canon established Clans for the immediate future. To call a team a clan, and we all know what they mean when they do so, in a game where the appellation "Clan" means only one set of entities in the milieu and they are not associated with any of the four incoming Clans, is a tactical misstep in the Inner Sphere to continue using it. Poor gamesmanship, too.

yeah, it is a whinge, but I am correct in having this concern. This isn't just any other game out there. There is an established milieu with over 25 years of history unlike the current game of the week. Do not like having things your way? You know what you can do. either rename your team or don't play. And until after the Clans enter the fray, canon must be observed. If you are a Merc entity, drop Clan and add corp to the end of your team name. easy.

[eZZip]

MGA121285, on 08 April 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

1)make "blacklist" like WoW have - if You see cheater, or any other annonying person, You can just add him into "blacklist" so you will no longer can enter same game as this blacklisted person. No more reports, no more work - it was done once and you can forget about it. Simple, effective, easy to do.

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to allow players to pick and choose people to exclude from their games; a complaint system is probably better. I can see it working much better for WoW, since it wouldn't need a matchmaking system of any sort, while MWO will probably have one. Heck, if you reduce the matchmaking system's pool of players with your suggestion that it picks based on KDR (I think that this, to an extent, is okay), and then you add in a web of player 1 blacklisted player 2 who blacklisted player 3, wait times could turn out much longer.

Gremlich Johns, on 08 April 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

What I want to see is a filter to dis-allow teams that insist on calling their team "Clan whatever we want" from entering into MWO...

Why didn't you make a new topic? That isn't relevant to the OP's post at all. And yes, this is just another game; it happens to be a game that you care about. Either way, I don't think that should forbid anybody from doing something that isn't actively disruptive to others. Forbidding a small group of people who've made their own community from picking some name is petty (it doesn't even affect the universe; it's player-made) and can be easily circumvented, anyway. (Who needs to put the full name of their clan in-game somewhere when they can just use tags?)

[FinnMcKool]

well there is a thread about recording matches and that I think would be better than Kill/death ratio.

you can prove a cheat.

the Kill/death ratio shouldnt / wouldnt really have anything to do with cheaters or imho a players skill.

It is a very bad thing in a game thats supposed to be focused on "Roles" , some players will die more

than others and in some roles they shouldnt get the kills, and if they fulfill their "role" that should be fine,

dont condemn them for that,

I think we should discourage the Kill / death Ratio Fans, they tend to be bad team players . their stats are

more important than the team, role warfare will become "Deathmatch" , Assults will be the only mechs ,ECT

.ECT.ECT.....

This is gearing up to be the best Mechwarrior game ever, dont let cheaters ruin it.

[Pz_DC]

eZZip, on 08 April 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to allow players to pick and choose people to exclude from their games; a complaint system is probably better. I can see it working much better for WoW, since it wouldn't need a matchmaking system of any sort, while MWO will probably have one. Heck, if you reduce the matchmaking system's pool of players with your suggestion that it picks based on KDR (I think that this, to an extent, is okay), and then you add in a web of player 1 blacklisted player 2 who blacklisted player 3, wait times could turn out much longer.

Ok ill see you then when this "smart machmaking system" will group you up with players who You hate over and over. Machmaking isnt a solution, its a part of it. When I see some players that I dont like for any reason I want to be sure it was 1st and last time. Even if ther skills are same as my own. Last night i was played MW3 and I got grouped with one chater for 3 times even after I send the replay. I was forced to leave 3 games in a row coz he was there again and again. Is it ok? You saying it is.

FinnMcKool, on 08 April 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

well there is a thread about recording matches and that I think would be better than Kill/death ratio.

you can prove a cheat.

.ECT.ECT.....

This is gearing up to be the best Mechwarrior game ever, dont let cheaters ruin it.

This will take a time for you and dev's, who will need to waste time to watch ALL of incoming replays. You think its better then system "ban and forget" ?... Strange one... At 1st not all of us will be able to get replays coz it will slow down ther comps. 2nd one - even if I save replay I cant be sure dev's will agree with me. 3rd - as I told dev's shell better waste time for balance game isntead for watching replays.

Come on, community! 3 reply, less then 50 vievs ?! What's wrong with You ?! Do You realy think that making balance is much more important then get rid of cheaters and other bad boys!?...

P.S. When I see most of You discuss about what mech' they want to see in this game instead how whole game will works I realise that there is something wrong on this planet. Car must be able to ride, not just got a good looking. Wake up please.

Edited by MGA121285, 09 April 2012 - 06:02 AM.

[00dlez]

eZZip, on 08 April 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Heck, if you reduce the matchmaking system's pool of players with your suggestion that it picks based on KDR (I think that this, to an extent, is okay), and then you add in a web of player 1 blacklisted player 2 who blacklisted player 3, wait times could turn out much longer.

Those folks who "abuse" the blacklist, by excluding any one the deem too good, too bad, cheating, etc etc will have longer wait times. Those who use it more sparingly (obvious hackers, intentional TK/TWing, etc) won't have much of a problem. Especially if there is a report/account ban process that will eventually eliminate these accounts anyway.

[Soviet Alex]

Sure, I'm concerned about being in a match against people with far superior skills (or just better interfaces). That's the price you pay in ANY online multiplayer game. The kids who do nothing but play all day & have better gear will kick your posterior. Am I worried enough to be scared off? No. I'll give it a go & see what the devs have come up with, in this as in everything else. They know the issues at least as well as we do, & although the solution might not be perfect on Day 1, I'd wager that they're already working on something.

[Outrider01]

MGA121285, on 09 April 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

Come on, community! 3 reply, less then 50 vievs ?! What's wrong with You ?! Do You realy think that making balance is much more important then get rid of cheaters and other bad boys!?...

P.S. When I see most of You discuss about what mech' they want to see in this game instead how whole game will works I realise that there is something wrong on this planet. Car must be able to ride, not just got a good looking. Wake up please.

Sounds like butthurt syndrome.

Get over it.

Report the person, it gets banned, its gone. Done deal Bro! Why stress over it?

And for the record, WoT was a terrible game, hell I got banned for "leeching" experience when in reality I exited match at start up, which means I should not of earned any experience according to their game mechanics because the vechile blew up at match start up. But the tank was not blowing up, butthurt Joe Chumps like yourself reported me, I got banned for nothing because I already assumed zero experience reward facing +4 tier tanks all day long for weeks on end when I exited the match (pre-december last year) - later started seeing I was getting experience AFTER I left a match when the tank was supposed to blow up (by design, during 30 second count down before 15 min duration). Yup, Butthurt folks like the OP ruin the game for others as well as themselves, instead of just reporting and letting the Gods That Be (read that as Developers and Customer Reps) to investigate because on the internet, everyone is sensitive, everyone feels justified Batman, everyone belives they are Magical Game Developers and ThatGuy™ has to be cheating!, but they can't be bothered to just let the people actually paid to investigate to do the work.

[MaddMaxx]

In a Remote Server "Instanced" based game play format, Cheating should be nigh on impossible. Now if one defines a TK'r as a cheat then perhaps the definition of "Cheating" should be clarified.
For example,a TK'r would be defined as nothing more than an "asshat", not a "cheater" and can be dealt with internally. No need to get all BlackListy about it all.

[Dragorath]

eZZip, on 08 April 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to allow players to pick and choose people to exclude from their games; a complaint system is probably better. I can see it working much better for WoW, since it wouldn't need a matchmaking system of any sort, while MWO will probably have one. Heck, if you reduce the matchmaking system's pool of players with your suggestion that it picks based on KDR (I think that this, to an extent, is okay), and then you add in a web of player 1 blacklisted player 2 who blacklisted player 3, wait times could turn out much longer.

Who said that you know that someone blacklistet you? Could be Without notification so this problm doesn't occur. You are just "unfortunate" never to play with this person in a duell.

[Victor Morson]

I'd just like to say that about 99% of the time I hear someone called a cheater, they're not. They really aren't. I've dealt with people rage quitting and leaving matches angry because someone is "too good" and is "hacking" so many times my head hurts.

When I spectate or really watch these people carefully, no, they're just good. But no one will believe you; they don't want their ego bruised. It's easier to scream about hacks than it is to admit you're just worse than the other guy.

Not to say I've never seen actual hacks. The thing with them, though, is they are generally terrible at disguising what they are. Vision hacks result in consistently abusive behavior (not many people are subtle about it, because what's the point of a vision hack if you're going to ignore it?) and aim hacks are generally extremely obvious - you can see their aim "snapping" to things, "scanning" inhumanly fast or other tells. While a lot of people look at a good player that's not missing shots in games and goes "hacker!" a real cheat generally doesn't look like a good player, it looks like a fast moving script that's breaking the normal aiming rules in a game. Because it is.

Case in point, in the last year I've encountered 2-3 people out of hundreds I can honestly say were cheating. In the same time I've heard at least 500 cries of cheating. Amusingly, I've even been accused of cheating dozens of times in that period in a few games, because I know how to get the most out of "inferior" weapons or detect people based on audio cues regularly. Even if I try to explain how I knew where someone was based on sound / an educated guess from knowing the map, it won't change anyone's mind.. and now their encounter with me will spawn more "hacking" stories.

... that said, some games are far worse than others. There have been games rendered utterly unplayable by hacks (Diablo 1, Modern Warfare 2 at times) and that's something that needs to be addressed. I'm just saying it's not nearly as common in most games as people like to think.

PS: I beg of you, PGI - and I mean beg - for the love of God do not use PunkBuster. It's a placebo of a program that punishes legitimate users more than it does hackers, kicking and banning for next to no reason while totally failing to stop even the most blatant hacking. I really wish MWO was Steam integrated because VAC is a league better, but since it's not, I know PunkBuster is on the table. For the love of all things holy, don't do it. You're just punishing your player base so a few people can feel "safer" knowing it exists.

I honestly bet that PunkBuster is designed to boot legitimate players for minor offenses purely so the server sees people getting kicked and believe it's doing something. I cannot express how much I think this program is terrible.

00dlez, on 09 April 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Those folks who "abuse" the blacklist, by excluding any one the deem too good, too bad, cheating, etc etc will have longer wait times. Those who use it more sparingly (obvious hackers, intentional TK/TWing, etc) won't have much of a problem. Especially if there is a report/account ban process that will eventually eliminate these accounts anyway.

This happens in L4D since Steam enabled the list but not as rampantly as I feared.

MGA121285, on 09 April 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

Come on, community! 3 reply, less then 50 vievs ?! What's wrong with You ?! Do You realy think that making balance is much more important then get rid of cheaters and other bad boys!?...

P.S. When I see most of You discuss about what mech' they want to see in this game instead how whole game will works I realise that there is something wrong on this planet. Car must be able to ride, not just got a good looking. Wake up please.

I think it's because other people realize what I was saying - the majority of those "persecuted" by "hackers" are generally calling anyone that's a magnitude better than them a cheater.

I'm not saying it's unimportant at all - if exploits and cheats are available they will be abused and it has wrecked games where it's caught on - but it's definitely something they can deal with as the issue arises rather than panic about now. Honestly exploits scare me more than cheating sometimes, because once those get widely known they get abused far, far more since anybody that's read Gamefaqs or saw a youtube video can do it.

Edited by Victor Morson, 11 April 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[AlanEsh]

MGA121285, on 09 April 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

Ok ill see you then when this "smart machmaking system" will group you up with players who You hate over and over. Machmaking isnt a solution, its a part of it. When I see some players that I dont like for any reason I want to be sure it was 1st and last time. Even if ther skills are same as my own. Last night i was played MW3 and I got grouped with one chater for 3 times even after I send the replay. I was forced to leave 3 games in a row coz he was there again and again. Is it ok? You saying it is.

How many people were queued up to play MW3? 20? 50? 100?

If MWO's doesn't have several thousand people in the queue for matchups, I'll eat my hat. Your chances of this kind of problem occurring are very small.

[Victor Morson]

Angelicon, on 11 April 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

How many people were queued up to play MW3? 20? 50? 100?

If MWO's doesn't have several thousand people in the queue for matchups, I'll eat my hat. Your chances of this kind of problem occurring are very small.

I'm honestly surprised there's even more than a single MW3 server up, maintained as a museum piece.

[Kenyon Burguess]

s long as the devs have a solid reporting system in place and those found guilty of griefing/cheating/trolling not only get account banned but IP banned as well. the game will do just fine.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Any Banishment received as a consequence of cheating accusations needs to be backed by an admin viewing a match recodring/sifting through code - not backed soly by somebody's word alone. Bans are serious. On that note, people who provide deliberately false reports to Admins should be susceptible to Banishment.

"Cheaters" should be offered a reward for reporting cheating methods - that will allow the Devs to fix the bugs and cheaters will get the reward they crave. Cheaters cheat for the mental satisfaction reward it offers when you win by doing something naughty... so give them a Mech or something as a reward for the Intel they provide. Any reawrd offered would have to be accessible to the non-paying player in order to keep the game balanced (it's F2P, not cheat-to-win).

I don't believe in personal banlists because leaving a fight due to the people engaged in combat is essentially abandoning your post. Orders are orders, if you don't like the people you're fighting with, then 1.) report them for their violations of the Terms of Use, or 2.) deal with them if they aren't violating the Terms of Use. Try to keep your official reports to-the-letter. Racial slurs and cheating can be reported; shooting your Mech's dead chassis into dust while screaming "I PWN YOU!!" cannot be reported.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 11 April 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Prosperity Park, on 11 April 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

• Any Banishment received as a consequence of cheating accusations needs to be backed by an admin viewing a match recodring/sifting through code - not backed soly by somebody's word alone. Bans are serious.

This really isn't viable. There's going to be too many accusations flying around for admins to ever look at it. The best thing that can be done is finding out how a cheat works, than automating the process of looking for it.

Prosperity Park, on 11 April 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

• "Cheaters" should be offered a reward for reporting cheating methods - that will allow the Devs to fix the bugs and cheaters will get the reward they crave. Cheaters cheat for the mental satisfaction reward it offers when you win by doing something naughty... so give them a Mech or something as a reward for the Intel they provide. Any reawrd offered would have to be accessible to the non-paying player in order to keep the game balanced (it's F2P, not cheat-to-win).

Flipping cheaters and exploit finders has been used to great effect in the past; it's always a good idea. Having a hard core map monkeying group check the game out in alpha is always a good idea, too.

Prosperity Park, on 11 April 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

• People who provide deliberately false reports to Admins should be susceptible to Banishment.

I really disagree with this; it's too hard to tell what a person's motives are. Like I said, I hear cheating accusations thrown around ALL of the time - and they really, really believe it.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Victor Morson, on 11 April 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

<p class="blockquote">

• "People who provide deliberately false reports to Admins should be susceptible to Banishment."

I really disagree with this; it's too hard to tell what a person's motives are. Like I said, I hear cheating accusations thrown around ALL of the time - and they really, really believe it.

Well, I meant that "those who do deliberately provide false reports are subject to ban" would be only applicable when it's definitively established that someone's a proven liar. It's not like every accusation has to be investigated or anything like that.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

@Victor - when open beta lauches you should get the Aces and a few other NBT teams to play the devs to show them what teams can really do. I agree with you that a lot of the people who played a lot of MW in the past will probably get called cheats because of their hard earned skill. Keeping most things server side and having good code should keep true "hacks" down to a minimum. Never understood it myself, if I get a kill if it;s not down to me , why would it mean anythiing?

[wwiiogre]

In a game where the Dev's will be controlling all of the servers, cheating becomes less likely. In BF3 once we set up our own server and started running the programs that were scanning for aim bots and other hacks and exploits I was quite amazed to see how many cheaters we actually caught. In fact it was magnitudes higher than we expected. In a 32 v 32 game of BF3 we averaged ten kicks and bans a game for one month. Running the server 24/7. Meaning huge amounts of cheaters using aim bots, and intentional glitches and hacks. Huge amounts of players. A little less than 20% of the players were using known hacking programs or bots. That is why I stopped playing BF3, because only a few of the servers were running the programs we were running. And very few of them had active admins to stop abusive players from team killing or destroying team assets liked vehicles. It became so frustrating that a game I was playing for fun became disturbingly dramatic. I am a team player and play quietly, when I get super shot or killed in an unexpected way, I usually comment how did you do that? Like for instance getting killed by a shotgun while I am the gunner in a Helo. And head shot at that. And we weren't anywhere near the ground. Now I didn't say cheater but I was sure thinking it. Or getting one shot killed in a tank from the front at max range by another tank. The math says its not possible. So I ask the player that did it and find he explains he fired two rounds, one a tracking missile and another main gun round so that both rounds must have hit at about the same time. As a tanker in BF3 I know this is possible and accept it on faith unless that player does it time and time again and I observe and see no missile shot coming from his tank. Then I ask others privately to also watch that individual and we start checking scores to see if that player has an unusual k/d ratio etc. Even then I don't say cheater. Cause I have no proof. I am a good BF3 player. I know some players who are amazing and on certain maps near unkillable. And to some players they may seem like they are cheating, but I know different. I have played with and watched these players on those maps. In BF3 you can find a player that is playing amazing and then follow them and see what they are doing and how they are wracking up scores. I don't see that possible in MWO as it will be in a smaller scale of 12 v 12 or even smaller. I hope the Dev's have some good code and some good tracking code to see when or if someone has enabled god mode, aim bot, etc. And they handle this in house. I personally don't like to see black lists and think PGI needs to handle that. The last thing we need is players hanging around for hours waiting to play. But I would rather wait to get a good game in than to have to get three fast games in I had to play with total arse hats who are cheating, abusing and tk ing. I personally am part of a large Merc Corps and hope PGI has a drop as unit ability and I know we will self police are self and make sure our games are fun. But we can't say that about whoever we play against.

so interesting idea, I have seen Punkbuster abused so many times that it really doesn't do its job anymore. And agree that PGI should do their own code. But who knows, I am sure they are working on it as it is a large part of what a multiplayer game is online.

chris

Edited by wwiiogre, 12 April 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[Long Draw]

I've actually got a funny story from a previous game I played.

Okay, so I had the habit of staying in towns and crafting goods to sell to stores and other players pretty much 95% of the time I was in game. Now, anyone who was a serious crafter in the game had heard or knew someone that was using a macro to automate the process so that they could level up insanely fast from the experience pouring in 24/7/365 minus the trips they would make to barter for more resources to continue the process. But as you would expect, this was considered a bannable offense.

However, one day, one of the game moderators logged in and sent a system message that the developers had decided to allow macroing of crafting. So, since I had enough resources to keep me busy for months already (I had clan members bringing me resources and they got the refined product free of charge since I got the exp). So I setup and started the macro working. I actually got to have the macro run for about an entire week before the developers sent out a notice to everyone that anyone caught macroing after midnight that night would be banned. But the best part is that they never rolled back the server after this happened, so I ended up getting about 3x the experience that I normally did!

Gotta love those GM's!