21 replies to this topic

[Muffinator]

Why not take a break from dropping full sides just until the matchmaking gets improved?

You are scaring away new players. I know this from the team chat in my pug games when we drop against you. Yes, you can probably go 8-0 against pugs every time, but is it really that satisfying? Wouldn't it be better to drop in small groups and actually help new players on your own side learn while giving yourselves more of a challenge?

[Inconspicuous]

And I thought this was going to be a thread requesting 12v12 matches...

[Sug]

I was thinking 20v20 at least.

[Lin Shai]

Because it doesn't make a difference. Most PUGs are so horrible they get steamrolled if you're playing with one or two friends in a group and the rest are PUGs filling in. As it is ther are many "pre-mades" that are just two or three people.

Which is also what happens when one PUG happens to get 2 or 3 good players on it; the result is 8-0 or 8-1 and the PUG that won gets called a "pre-made" by bad players on the other team.

New players have picked up on this and now think every time they lose it must be one of these "pre-mades", even though they're in trial mechs and really don't have any idea how to play the game yet.

The actual solution to this, which is skill based matchmaking ("Phase 3"), is probably a ways off even though the game really needs it. New players won't play veterans and terribad rambos will fight each other, with competent PUGers and "pre-mades" having good games.

Edited by Lin Shai, 03 November 2012 - 09:55 PM.

[Muffinator]

Lin Shai, on 03 November 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Because it doesn't make a difference. Most PUGs are so horrible they get steamrolled if you're playing with one or two friends in a group and the rest are PUGs filling in. As it is ther are many "pre-mades" that are just two or three people.

Which is also what happens when one PUG happens to get 2 or 3 good players on it; the result is 8-0 or 8-1 and the PUG that won gets called a "pre-made" by bad players on the other team.

I'm not a new player and I don't usually blame my losses on premades. I agree a few good players on a side make a difference but it isn't usually a wipeout like 8 random players vs a team of 8.

I'm specifically talking about the full or near full teams dropping together. I just dropped against one twice and recognised most of the names. The second time I knew what they'd do but even getting my pug to group up, defend and focus fire we got pasted 8-0.

When I drop with 1-2 friends we talk to the team, often answer questions from new players, and the matches are generally fun.

[hammerreborn]

Yes premades are an issue, but they really shouldnt be the end all be all, THIS GAME SUX CAUSE PREMADES MADE ME LOSE.

The bigger issue is how many threads tell you to just shoot one guy and suicide in trials for quick bills, the constant afking and DCing that's rampant in nearly every game I've played. I shot a guy 3 times in the back in a jenner and the guy just f4ed.

Those cause the 8-0 stomps far more often than the premades.

One game had the team start with one guy down, two people immediated DCed, and another was AFK. 3v8, ridiculous.

[lsp]

Lin Shai, on 03 November 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Because it doesn't make a difference. Most PUGs are so horrible they get steamrolled if you're playing with one or two friends in a group and the rest are PUGs filling in. As it is ther are many "pre-mades" that are just two or three people.

Which is also what happens when one PUG happens to get 2 or 3 good players on it; the result is 8-0 or 8-1 and the PUG that won gets called a "pre-made" by bad players on the other team.

New players have picked up on this and now think every time they lose it must be one of these "pre-mades", even though they're in trial mechs and really don't have any idea how to play the game yet.

The actual solution to this, which is skill based matchmaking ("Phase 3"), is probably a ways off even though the game really needs it. New players won't play veterans and terribad rambos will fight each other, with competent PUGers and "pre-mades" having good games.

It's very easy to tell a premade, regardless if it's 8 or 3. If the other team is actually using tactics, and focus fire down mechs one at a time, they're a premade. No pug of random players will ff, and they def won't all stand in e5 on caustic valley while their lights mark targets for lrms. And win the match just by spamming lrm's. Not to mention, soon as I went after a group of 2 lrm boats, they had support on me within seconds.
Plus there was no lerrooy rambo solo players marching off to their death.

[Xantars]

Ive played with 4 friends and 4 pugs and have won every match so far so we are still pug stomping it dosent matter the pugs are still going to be stomped this is a team based game GET WITH IT JOIN A TEAM OR GET STOMPED !!!!!!

[Ultrabeast]

Inconspicuous, on 03 November 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

And I thought this was going to be a thread requesting 12v12 matches...

Yes I think 12v12 is good. Why go smaller when you can go bigger? Would you rather have a small pizza or a big one? Enough said.

[Alexandrix]

Least you could do is stop rolling in gausscats,streakcats,and LRM boat atlas's.make's it pretty obvious.

Edited by Alexandrix, 03 November 2012 - 10:10 PM.

[Muffinator]

lsp, on 03 November 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

It's very easy to tell a premade, regardless if it's 8 or 3. If the other team is actually using tactics, and focus fire down mechs one at a time, they're a premade. No pug of random players will ff

Rubbish. I've had heaps of good games with pugs when we communicate, stick together and focus fire. Try talking to your team.

[lsp]

Alexandrix, on 03 November 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

Least you could do is stop rolling in gausscats,streakcats,and LRM boat atlas's.make's it pretty obvious.

Not really, I roll in a streak and I've never played in a premade. And when I see Grcat or streak I don't assume they're a premade.
I've seen pretty terribad pilots in streaks actually, some people think it will be a a win button mech. But if you suck, you will still suck in a streak. surprised?

[The_Desert_Tiger]

I don't see many gausscats anymore in premade groups (or at least the ones we run or run up against), streak cats here and there and a few atlas boats but not as near as I was expecting.

Lots of medium mechs builds though.

[lsp]

Muffinator, on 03 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Rubbish. I've had heaps of good games with pugs when we communicate, stick together and focus fire. Try talking to your team.

Communicate how? with text? When most people in a pug won't even understand what ff means? Lies. I've tried it before. Almost everytime I play a match I say gl, then to my team stay together and if caustic for example I will say f5? f7? valley?. And it's usually followed by complete silence.

Walking in a straight line and clumping up somewhere doesn't count. It's easy to spot tactics that only a seasoned player would know, and the typical premade tactics. Like line formation and wait for the wanders to walk into their sector of fire, then come wipe out the rest of the pug team.

Pugs don't play that way, and it's easy to see the difference.

Edited by lsp, 03 November 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[Lin Shai]

lsp, on 03 November 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Communicate how? with text? When most people in a pug won't even understand what ff means? Lies. I've tried it before. Almost everytime I play a match I say gl, then to my team stay together and if caustic for example I will say f5? f7? valley?. And it's usually followed by complete silence.

That's generally my PUG experience as well. Type something in chat ... ::crickets:: as they run off somewhere to die.

That said .. it's hyperbole to say that happens every game. It doesn't - occasionally you'll have a PUG that isn't filled with idiots, and actually will form up behind the ridge, etc. You'll usually have at least one rambo that runs over it, dies, then types "U GUYS SUCK< Y U NOT BACK ME UP?" ... but the rest hang on to have a decent match. Even playing against them as a pre-made you can tell that at least some of them have a clue.

THe problem is that they're few and far between; too frustrating to be worth PUGing anymore, really.

Edited by Lin Shai, 03 November 2012 - 10:23 PM.

[Kelb]

Stealing this topic from the usual whining about premades, that has been discussed and discussed. I would love to see 12 vs 12, company battles.

[Ultrabeast]

Kelb, on 03 November 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

Stealing this topic from the usual whining about premades, that has been discussed and discussed. I would love to see 12 vs 12, company battles.

Yeah that would be awesome. I would love to see 12 vs 12 pug stomps where the pugs line up and are actually pug dogs, instead of mechs. Then the premades get to run all around trying to stomp as many as they can before time runs out!!

Edited by Ultrabeast, 03 November 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[Mordin Ashe]

From what I see on TS it doesn't seem like there is more than 8-12 premades at one time. That isn't that much ... Also, don't underestimate players knowing their way around, you can adapt, even to chaotic and lousy performed tactics shown by casual pug team mates and achieve a certain degree of succes.

Other than that, my Merc corp doesn't really care about how many enemies we have, we will kill you anyway, no matter if 4 vs 8 or not

[dal10]

I will just say this, my unit, house liao, despises running into pugs, they are no challenge.

[Justin Xang Allard]

Inconspicuous, on 03 November 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

And I thought this was going to be a thread requesting 12v12 matches...

Ya i would love that!