105 replies to this topic

[Tvae]

Double means two, therefore I voted for both options. Since you let me.

(First world anarchy, ho!)

[cipher]

Congratulations Piranha. This is the crowning jewel in your butchering of Mechwarrior and Battletech canon. In the name of the holy chalice of "balance", you've chopped off yet another appendage of Mechwarrior. I guess you couldn't balance it in the 100s of other ways possible while trying to sort of at least resemble Mechwarrior. Why not just call it "Mech Rumble" now? Or better yet, "Mech Rumble: Canada" because my founder's pre-order refund takes about as long as sending a package from Canada to the United State.

No, I'm not bitter at all! After all, I gave up on MWO being what was marketed and what I looked forward to long ago. Enjoy "Mech Rumble".

Oh well, hope you guys can mold MWO into something interesting and that resembles Mechwarrior in the "9 months" or more of work you have on your plate even though it's Open Beta now (which should really be release 2013 instead of November release).

Edited by cipher, 02 November 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[Deedsie]

Quote

Where is the "S T F U and wait until the patch drops so we can actually know what we're talking about" option?

There's this thing called "math" that leaves such a thing unnecessary. I heard this exact same argument last year in League of Legends for Kayle's remake which I called The Big Nerf, which I and others have said would leave her in a much worse spot than before, and it did. Thankfully, they ended up buffing her back to where she needed to be.

Regarding this double heat sink change, my heat dissipation on my Awesome will be no different than what it is now, just with more heat from pulse lasers unless I decide to change those out for regular medium lasers, in which I at least will gain some range.

[Guy Grand]

1.4 is fine, but only if they knock off a fitting slot. Three is kind of dumb for a 1.4 bonus. At least then the name, "Double Heat Sink" would make some sort of sense.

Edited by Guy Grand, 02 November 2012 - 03:55 PM.

[Xaks]

Yep, this is the last one.

I voted for double meaning two.

And with that, I take my leave. I've already uninstalled and deleted. As soon as I'm done here, I'm logging out and that'll be it.

What had been the game I'd waited patiently for a decade never materialized. The website redesign is asstastic, the 'new' mods are...shall we say less than competent, and half the mechanics of what made Battletech an awesome game (pun not intended) have been scrapped for supposed 'balance' issues are, at best, fabrications or delusions.

So, yea, you guys can have my stuff if you want it and can have a mod give you my beta slot. I'm out and won't be back.

I've been a vocal supporter of Russ, Bryan, Paul and Co. since I got in here in June, and since then my faith has been tested and eroded more and more with each patch. This one is too far. I'm out. Best of luck to y'all and the dev team.

*salute

*walks away

[Idzy]

Once again I am glad I got my founders money back, if they don't want DHS to work for 2x heat disipation then why introduce them at all?

[Mordakai]

No because it would go against PGI's crusade against Laser boats.

[Dakkss]

Yes... let's stop the laser boats instead of balancing the amount of Trial LRM boats that are raining hell left and right.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Insidious Johnson, on 02 November 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

It isn't a final number, they said they'd tweak it up or down after getting more data. So they will take into account how we use them. Not using them at all will skew the numbers.

Here is the issue and why alot of use were petitioning delays of Open Beta.

Everything counts. I can't just breeze on, test DHS for a while then swap back , test for a while, so on and so forth. Why? becuase my C-bill useage is permenant. If I use C-bills for testing, I end up with less C-bills for progressing.

This is why if the game is still in Beta open or closed, nothing should be permenant.

[Divine Madcat]

If anything, it proves just how much they LOVE gauss cats....

[Caladan Nix]

...What mystifies me most is how they try to nerf things in the worst way.

Really, I would swallow this change a bit better if they, I don't know, reduced the Critical slots for DHS as well? After all, with this line of thinking, I wouldn't be surprised if their 'reality' erased the Clans from reality completely, so what's the point?

As is is, I'm just wondering why the hell I went full in on Founding sometimes if they're gonna pretend that we're gods that need regularly nerfing when we're anything but.

[Onyx Rain]

They've taken the broken system and repackaged it into something just about functionally equivalent...worse in some cases and called it a fix!!!! (Especially given the changes to pulse weapons)

I admit that I had some concerns that fixing the dhs in the engines would allow for some super OP builds, BUT... I expected any fix to increase their usefulness significantly from what it is now, not nerf it in some builds. The 1.4 value seems way to low. Maybe 1.6-8 would be better. My understanding is the 1.4 value will actually make some builds currently using dhs less heat efficient? .... That is just silly.

Even in builds where the new 1.4 value may give you a bit more cooling, the pulse laser heat change If I read it right will negate much of that in many builds if they end up running hotter. I mean part of the point of using dhs is to carry bigger hotter weapons and pulse lasers were running plenty hot IMO.

I really feel this is a step backwards PGI. I agree with those who would have liked to see them fixed and allowed to keep their 2 rating....not 1.4, especially with the pulse laser changes. Then tweak it from there if everything is super OP.

Yes I'm gonna say this twice because it needs repeating...
Essentially for many builds PGI has just repackaged the current broken system and made a new system that overall is about functionally equivalent (especially if pulse lasers are going to run hotter)... and called it a fix!?!?!?!?!?

Edited by Onyx Rain, 02 November 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[Radical]

If they say they tried 2.0 and it was too much, I believe them.
In a multiplayer game, balance has to take priority.

[xhrit]

So...

can't use the mech I like cuz it doesn't have the correct hardpoints
can't use the weapons I like cuz they don't have the correct heat mechanics.

I guess someone at PGI decided for whatever reason that my favorite playstyle in battletech is op.

[Caladan Nix]

Radical, on 02 November 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

If they say they tried 2.0 and it was too much, I believe them.
In a multiplayer game, balance has to take priority.

Yes, because their internal testing has been so flawless before...

[Kraven Kor]

Radical, on 02 November 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

If they say they tried 2.0 and it was too much, I believe them.
In a multiplayer game, balance has to take priority.

And I can see that, but the math kind of speaks for itself. At 1.4, they are still better than SHS, but are they better enough to justify cost? How does it affect builds with a higher number of sinks compared to lower number of sinks?

I don't know exactly what to recommend, but there would seem to be better options.

I will at least test it. I know some are freaking out, but I will at least test it.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 02 November 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Then dont call it battletech/mechwarrior if youre gonna throw out the rules.
"random mecha online" is what we're getting. Starting to agree with the guy that said it wouldf be "battletech flavored" if you did stuff like this.


agreed

and whered the last forum go? I cant find my thread on this anymore

since theres 13 of these threads I might as well put this here. By the way, what happened to the beta forums? Most of my threads are gone -.-

Yeah.... 2.0 is too much in a game where the NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT
Is that heat is an issue

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 02 November 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[Onyx Rain]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 02 November 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

since theres 13 of these threads I might as well put this here. By the way, what happened to the beta forums? Most of my threads are gone -.-

Yeah.... 2.0 is too much in a game where the NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT
Is that heat is an issue

I'm in the middle...

I felt the heat system overall was a little to harsh, but I want to see some heat management (and skill at doing it) part of the game.

I can see how dhs rating of 2, might be to much overall....I could see some potential builds and was like @#$! that is gonna be OP (To the point where almost everyone would run DHS, but hey at least we'd all be OP, so it'd still be fairly balanced).

But... the current broken system didn't seem to be enough of an advantage when you used DHS. BTW, I also think charging you to re-downgrade, and re-upgrade is stupid. They said it is a one time charge...ya they charge you one time every time you change LOL.

The new "fix" barely helps some builds, and gimps others so basically it is functionally equivalent to the "broken system", especially when you factor in that pulse weapons and small laser are apparently going to run hotter then they do now.

1. At a minimum I'd if they are going to do the 1.4 change...I think they should skip on "fixing" pulse weapons and small lasers. This will negate much of the benefit of DHS in many builds. And IMO, and I think that of most others they ran plenty hot enough as they were.

2. They've attempted to prevent a possible backlash from people who like dhs when implemented with a 2 rating, but turns out the devs feel that is to much and downgrade it....so instead they've gotten backlash from all of us that were looking forward to 2 rating dhs. At least if they went with a 2 rating they would have been giving us what we expected and something more inline with bt canon and could use that argument against us if they were to much and their was backlash. We the community would have at least gotten to test it out ourselves instead of relying on the opinion of their questionable QA people. In fact as a strategy to avoid backlash in the event that 2 rating dhs proved to much (if that is the case), the plan was questionable...and has failed. Also adding in the "Fix" to pulse lasers/sm lasers...made the whole thing a bigger fail because if they were broke in the minds of most of us it was in that they ran to hot as is.

3, Especially considering the pluse/sm laser changes I think the safer play would have been to start at a point where no build currently using DHS, will see its performance gimped with the 1.4 change. There would either be no benefit but no loss...or benefits only. Gimping some people with your "fixes", when most didn't think the "broken DHS system" was enough isn't smart. Looks like they tried to play it safe...but played it way to safe IMO.

Please devs tweak the 1.4 to 1.6 at least in the upcoming patch if you are going to nerf pulse/sm lasers at the same time, and gimp some current builds using dhs.

[Vapor Trail]

Tennex, on 02 November 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

cuz it makes a working game in the end.

This is the point.

However, Gauss is the weapon in the long range catagory because it generates next to no heat and therefore has a damn high sustainable RoF.
It is a pretty good midrange weapon, same reason.
It is an average short range weapon, again same reason with the addition of no minimum range.

Position: Heat is fundamentally broken, or Gauss fires way too fast. (With pages of math for proof).
Opponent's Response: DHS will fix it by allowing large energy weapons to fire faster. (With no math for proof).

After DHS inclusion:
Position: Heat is fundamentally broken, or Gauss fires way too fast. Additionally, DHS are b0rked.
Devs: Oh, our bad. DHS in engines are only counted as singles. Lets fix that. Oh, and BTW, Lasers have been broke for a while.
Opponent's response: See? DHS will fix it.

Now:
Position: Heat is fundamentally broken, or Gauss fires way too fast.

DHS are going to provide 40% of the expected increase in cooling. Therefore DHS cannot "fix it."

The math says that large energy weapons cannot obtain the same performance relative to the Gauss that they had in TT. This is due to the Gauss firing at a max RoF that is 2.5 times the TT version, and heat dissipation remaining at TT levels.

I guess Gauss is apparently supposed to be "the weapon."

[Kaptain]

I think this 1.4 thing was planned all along... they just did not want to tell us... I noticed they were not working "correctly" game one the day the patch dropped. No way they could have missed that if they played their own game at all.

1.4 at the expense of 3 critical slots is NOT fixing the problem on heavy and assault builds. Give us 2.0!