7 replies to this topic

[Landsharkk]

I like to compare MWO battles to those of centuries ago. If you think of LRM's as a kind of artillery, then they could be thought of as 'archers'.

Back in medieval time, archers would be the first troop type to engage in battle with their volleys of arrows raining down on the enemy. Then, once the archers were out/low of arrows, or the enemy had maneuvered in close, the ground troops would move in for the close-combat fight.

If you notice, I've just described exactly how MWO matches work. You start off with LRM fire, then move in for the close combat.

With that said, I see absolutely nothing wrong with how matches are currently played out.

I mean, why wouldn't you use your long ranger weapons for when the enemy is at its' greatest range away from you?

[Roughneck45]

There is nothing wrong with LRMs. They are powerful, if you are a bad pilot lol.

Still the easiest weapon to counter. If you get trashed by LRMs, you deserved it.

Edited by Roughneck45, 04 November 2012 - 08:03 AM.

[The Herrick]

Landsharkk, on 04 November 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

I like to compare MWO battles to those of centuries ago. If you think of LRM's as a kind of artillery, then they could be thought of as 'archers'.

Back in medieval time, archers would be the first troop type to engage in battle with their volleys of arrows raining down on the enemy. Then, once the archers were out/low of arrows, or the enemy had maneuvered in close, the ground troops would move in for the close-combat fight.

If you notice, I've just described exactly how MWO matches work. You start off with LRM fire, then move in for the close combat.

With that said, I see absolutely nothing wrong with how matches are currently played out.

I mean, why wouldn't you use your long ranger weapons for when the enemy is at its' greatest range away from you?

The problem is unlike artilllary or archers LRMs are always accurate, can often clip through cover and most players boat with enough ammo to sink an entire army let alone decimate anything that gets close.

Really they need to be either less accurate or require more player interaction than R + LMB. Making Tag more important for being able to hit anything other than an atlus from over 500m away would be a good start. After all 'team game' and all that.

[SteelPaladin]

I actually got killed by LRM spam yesterday for the first time ever in months of playing. What happened? I was rusty as hell from not playing in a few weeks and got stupid, silhouetted myself on a damn ridgeline w/o anything high enough for solid cover nearby.

I can see why the LRM threads have cropped up again w/a bunch of new pilots. They smack you upside the head w/the learning curve of this game. They're an annoyance to a skilled pilot, but they will punish you hard if you screw up and new pilots have very little idea how to not screw up.

The Herrick, on 04 November 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

The problem is unlike artilllary or archers LRMs are always accurate, can often clip through cover and most players boat with enough ammo to sink an entire army let alone decimate anything that gets close.

Really they need to be either less accurate or require more player interaction than R + LMB. Making Tag more important for being able to hit anything other than an atlus from over 500m away would be a good start. After all 'team game' and all that.

The thing is, they AREN'T always accurate. If you're not smart about your fire lines, you lose a lot of missiles that never make it to that target. That in itself requires more interaction than R + LMB. Positioning is king if you want to do more than throw C-Bills at the other guy.

The clipping thing is definitely a problem and needs to be fixed, though. I think that alone would clean up a decent amount of the complaints by making cover more reliable.

Edited by SteelPaladin, 04 November 2012 - 08:13 AM.

[Lagfest]

Me and my team now joke about this...

After each kill by LRMs and direct fire support we bet on the chances of another person coming to the forums and starting a QQQQQ LRM thread.

The funny thing is we usually never have more than 1 or 2 dedicated LRM mechs and the kills are actually done most by the Jenner pilots >.>...

well that and those kills are mostly in the lake on Forrest col, and at the uphill base on River City.

Edited by Lagfest, 04 November 2012 - 08:13 AM.

[mike29tw]

Comparing real life battles with game balance isn't always a good analogy IMO.

I believe in the history there were foot soldiers whose sole purpose is basically being cannon fodder for the hard-hitting main force. It would be a bad choice to accurately portray that role in any gameplay design.

[Atusek]

Simply being a good pilot won't always counter LRM's though. One time I was in cauldron valley, and was about 200 M from our base with the rest of our team when 3 Jenners burst out and simply ran in circles targeting us. I was in an atlas so I was slowly running to cover while shooting the jenners, all the while being massively raped by LRMs. Of course the rest of my trial mech team just ran in circles sucking their thumbs, so within 3 or 4 seconds all my armor was gone and I was about dead. It's not simply "duck behind cover" or "be a good pilot", both of those sometimes can't help. Last I checked a medieval archer couldnt shoot you with 40 arrows a volley from a thousand meters away without line of sight and hit you every time.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

its not just 'new pilots.' Herrick has it right. I and my two friends played in Closed Beta since July. There is a massive flaw with the way lrms are portrayed: They turn 90° to hit a target. At first, this 90° was at the apex of their arc, which allowed lrms to fly over any cover and come down perfectly on a target. This approach made lrms a godly weapon so this was patched. The current flight path of lrms is fine except now that 90° turn is at the bottom of their arc. Watch lrms fly to hit a locked on jenner, they literally fly up and over (like they should) but if the jenner isn't directly under them the lrms come down to about mech height, slowly pivot to the horizontal axis and hit the jenner. At the last instant, they become ssrms. THAT is part of what makes them a pain in the arse to deal with. Lrms are supposed to be rain, on the TT the attacking player even on a successful hit, still rolled against a scatter chart to see how many lrms actually hit. Turning lrms into a 100%-hit lockon with this pivot behavior has made them too powerful.

I also agree that lrm spam at the start is a little ok, lrms are supposed to soften someone up. But a players ability to customize a mech has turned them into a show stopper. I drive a slightly modded HBK-4G (yes I love my bugged / 50%hitting A\C20), lrm spam completely ruins my mojo. The enemy knocks out my A\C20, not because they are good and trying to hit it, but because one or two spoil sports sits on a hill playing a point-and-click adventure game. As I said earlier, I'm a veteran pilot, I know when to duck so to speak, but many times the lrm rain comes down during CQB and the defending player has no choice or oppurtuniy to find cover. You guys have to remember, none of these weapons exist on the battlefield in a vacuum.