310 replies to this topic

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

They'll modify it but personally wanderer I really wonder if these guys think that far ahead. They're too reactive, not proactive enough to predict issues down the track. I've done the math. I lose out from the change if I purchase less than 10 DHSs. On larger mechs this means you can't use larger weapons. No, how stupid is that really?

[Obeast]

Personally for me. If the DHS arent double, then why even call them that? Thats some serious false advertising, and my pilot will be contacting his attorney on his home world to seek legal action and compensation!
In all seriousness, I agree with Wanderer, there are some serious mechs inbound into the game. They also bring a dependency on REAL DHS.....not triple slot Gimpy 1.4DHS. I have ran with him on TS a few times and he clearly knows his $h!t when it comes to mechs. Ive tried them on a few of my builds and quite honestly, they aren't worth the cost/space requirement.

[The Herrick]

Garth Erlam, on 02 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Man, I can't wait to see your game

Just reminding y'all.

[John Norad]

Marauder-3D

75 tons
2 PPC
1 Large Laser
2 Medium Lasers
20 Single Heat Sinks

Show me how that's supposed to work now or after the 1.4 DHS.
It doesn't. At all.

Same goes for the standard Stalker:

4 Medium Lasers
2 Large Lasers
2 SRM 6
2 LRM 10
20 Single Heat Sinks

The problem is, currently implemented mechs aren't even the real hot ones. Most of them were designed to be rather unproblematic when it comes to heat.
So how do you want to balance without a real representative sample?

wanderer, on 04 November 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

What people really fail to realize is that virtually all the chassis we use now are 3025-era tech. That is, the 'Mech was designed to function with SHS (..)

See above. How are those two designs to work properly with the current design? They do on the TT. They do really well. But here they'd just be grossly overgunned and overheated.

Edited by John Norad, 04 November 2012 - 06:42 AM.

[wanderer]

Brown Hornet, on 04 November 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

They'll modify it but personally wanderer I really wonder if these guys think that far ahead. They're too reactive, not proactive enough to predict issues down the track. I've done the math. I lose out from the change if I purchase less than 10 DHSs. On larger mechs this means you can't use larger weapons. No, how stupid is that really?

If anything, it feels like someone deliberately making a low offer on something to "haggle" a better deal out of a seller.

That is, what they figure will happen is we'll collectively scream bloody murder - as indeed, we are - they'll "improve" DHS to something around 1.7 or 1.8, and expect we'll be less grumbly about the whole thing.

To the average player in the know, DHS at 1.4 would be like if we ran MWO with each SHS removing .7 now. Or .8, or .9 if the expected "compromise" happens.

People chafe at heat problems as it is. Even a 10% loss would be considered painful on SHS- and PGI is suggesting four times that for DHS, condemning dozens of future designs to even worse function than the current stock models.

No. Just plain no.

[Konflict]

Brown Hornet, on 04 November 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

I play mostly Atlas builds and Awesomes with XL engines. This new 1.4 nerf totally screws me over because I can't fit more than 10 DHS into any of my Atlas builds even if I'm running an xl360. WTF PGI: are u telling me that that my 10 DHS which cost me 1.5 million C-Bills per mech is worth the same as 14 single HSs? How is this better than Endo Steel on ANY Assualt mech? You guys need to stop playing mathematics and start playing this monstrosity you've created. You call this OPEN Beta and think the game is 95% stable? This is the buggiest build to date and now you are actually causing paying customers losses with your ridiculous antics.

For the love of god, if you insist on DHSs being worth 1.4x STD HS at least let people mix them in with STD HSs!!! You should pull out your CBill cheques and start paying back your "loyal" customers for wasting their time.

I agree with this.

I have no idea what they will do on the next patch to fix this issue, if we even get a patch for this on the 6th, it could be delayed.

Right now DHS is broken and should be a value of 2 like it says. We spent a lot of $'s - MC/CBills on this "upgrade" that does not work and going back to SHS costs us even more.

Right now we are stuck unless we spend more CBill's to revert back.

We should have the option for a refund of CBill's if they are not set to "Double" or a 2 value, because that what these should be.

They should also setup a test server and copy accounts over to that so we can test there before patches happen like a lot of games do. A Test Server is a great idea.

[Alphawolf]

I have long been ok with PGI buffing and nurfing this and that. I did not agree with the LRM damage increse but again was going to leave it alone. But even before they have released it for large scale Beta testing (I would say large as in more than 1000 people) they nurfed the DHS into 40% better heastsink taking up 3x space. This is making that upgrade useless to Awesome drivers and any other mech that is heavier than a medium and uses all energy weapons. Why the heck could they not start at 1.6 or 1.7? They want to it make work like puke at first so we are thankfull 2-6 weeks later when they finally get around to changing the value? Whats even worse is they do not even take into account some players will not even upgrade to 40% better heatsinks taking up 3x space because it cost 1.5 million c-bills which equals 1.5-2 hours of play and thats even with premium time. Why spend the c-bills for messed up sinks that do not even work as their name sake? I understand original DHS would need a nurf but cutting out 60% of their usefullness while still having a high cost and taking up 3x space is just wrong for those of us that had legitimate builds that need double heatsinks to even be viable. PGI for the first time I am going to say it, you are screwing me over.

Here are my builds:
Awesome 8Q
Standard Engine 290, Standard Armor 448 points, Standard structure, 19 Double Heat Sinks
ER Large Laser, 2x ER PPC, 3x Medium Lasers, Medium Pulse Laser, AMS 1 ton ammo

Awesome 9M
Standard Engine 300, Standard Armor 464 points, Endo Steel Structure, 18 Double Heat Sinks
ER Large Laser, 2x ER PPC, 2x Medium Pulse Lasers, 2x Streak SRM2 1 ton of ammo, AMS 1 ton ammo

Tell me how they are viable now with your witless over nurfing. I have more unpleasant things to say but that would just make me as bad as PGI to say them. Yes I understand they will change it up or down as they see fit, but we all know what kind of time frame we are looking at when they change anything. They could just started at 1.6 and a lot less people would be angry.

[Rumrunner2]

I am really enraged about this DHS story.

At first, after nearly half year of beta, the devs finally noted there are bugs in the heatmanagment. rofl

Atm i have 3 Atlas with 20-21 DHS. Even DHS are bugged, the DHS gave me a small advantage over single HS.
With the announced nerf to 1,4 per DHS i have about 10% disadvantage in heatmanagment compared to the actual (bugged) situation. Very nice, big thx. devs. I wasted 4,5 millions C-Bill, my actual builds will not work anymore and i have to spend over 2million for switch back to SHS. I really love it.

Finally the matchmaking is complete down, lights Mechs can use Endo, Ferro and DHS (even nerfed), but for Assault class even DHS is now senceless. Assault stays on level 3 weeks ago, all other classes getting stronger.

Workflow and balancingideas of Piranha are very bad, they repeating all mistakes what leads BlackProphecy to a real desaster. If thery go on this way, MWO will end like BP, dead 1,5years after release.

[Shibas]

Wow, this thread has it all; elitism, whining & crying, bad math, and if nothing else an understanding that a lower number is not as effective as a higher number.

[Kushko]

So it would appear that they are still going trough with 1.4 even after the trove of information we have given them using the magical powers of math.

[Bryan Ekman]

Topic has wandered into no-mans-land.

We're going to be looking at several builds within this thread to help us tune the DHS number over time. Thanks for taking time out to post your details!