13 replies to this topic

[Maelfactor]

I was wondering if anyone has heard of plans to implement the heat buildup penalties in MWO as they are in Battletech? Decreasing movement, Decreasing accuracy, Ammo explosions.

[Throat Punch]

Maelfactor, on 04 January 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I was wondering if anyone has heard of plans to implement the heat buildup penalties in MWO as they are in Battletech? Decreasing movement, Decreasing accuracy, Ammo explosions.

Ammo explosions and internal structure damage are in the game now, but i'd love to see movement effects implemented for overheating.

[Mavairo]

Maelfactor, on 04 January 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I was wondering if anyone has heard of plans to implement the heat buildup penalties in MWO as they are in Battletech? Decreasing movement, Decreasing accuracy, Ammo explosions.

This would be one of the worst ideas ever. As if Big Weapons in this game were not penalized enough already.

[De La Fresniere]

Haven't heard of any such plans.

It would require an overhaul of the entire heat system though. Heat builds up much faster in MWO (weapons fire at triple TT speed, but sinks still dissipate heat based on a 10-second cycle AFAIK), so if you wanted to add penalties you'd have to dissipate heat much faster too or heat would become the one defining factor of any mech's efficiency, far above all others.

I think PGI merely intends for heat to limit Energy boating and sustained rate of fire. The other heat-based mechanics don't seem like they would serve any purpose, so I'm OK with them not being in the game.

[Leimrey]

Good idea, brah. Let's add more heat penalties so that energy builds will become even less viable than they are now. I'm sure it will help to balance out the disparity between ballistic weapons like gauss/ac20/uac5 and energy weapons like large lasers/PPCs/pulse lasers.

[Kraven Kor]

Leimrey, on 04 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Good idea, brah. Let's add more heat penalties so that energy builds will become even less viable than they are now. I'm sure it will help to balance out the disparity between ballistic weapons like gauss/ac20/uac5 and energy weapons like large lasers/PPCs/pulse lasers.

Eh, it could be done "right" though and avoid that.

The general concept is that energy weapons are high damage, use no ammo, but can't just be used willy-nilly. While ballistics and missiles give you comparable damage, but better sustained DPS, until the ammo bin is empty. Heat is the limiter for energy builds; ammo is the limiter for non-energy builds. Or that is the intent.

They haven't quite captured it here, mostly because we the players load up on more ammo to ensure we do not in fact run out of ammo so quickly as in TT

[MustrumRidcully]

Mavairo, on 04 January 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

This would be one of the worst ideas ever. As if Big Weapons in this game were not penalized enough already.

What's wrong with Gauss Rifles and Ultra AC/5s. They work just fine. But what is this heat thing anyway ...

Heat penalties would be great if the heat system was implemented like it was from Battletech. It's not really, however, it's just a regenerative ammo system, so heat penalties are probably not a good idea. I'd prefer a Battletech like heat system, obviously, but it seems not enough want that.

[General Taskeen]

First let's fix the heat monster programming of the game. Let's go with SHS = 1.2 (increase with efficiency) DHS = 1.8 (increase with efficiency)

And then maybe high heat penalties.

[Sug]

Mavairo, on 04 January 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

This would be one of the worst ideas ever. As if Big Weapons in this game were not penalized enough already.

If by penalized you mean gimped for no reason. All ballistics need their speed increased. PPCs should be insta-hit.

General Taskeen, on 04 January 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

First let's fix the heat monster programming of the game. Let's go with SHS = 1.2 (increase with efficiency) DHS = 1.8 (increase with efficiency)

Heat is only a problem for the people that are used to the crazy No Heat/Infinite Ammo MW4 matches. It's not that hard, if you're over heating......stop firing your weapons for a bit.

Heat management is part of the game.

Edited by Sug, 04 January 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[JP Josh]

Maelfactor, on 04 January 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I was wondering if anyone has heard of plans to implement the heat buildup penalties in MWO as they are in Battletech? Decreasing movement, Decreasing accuracy, Ammo explosions.

ammo explosoins from bein to hot is in game so is internal dmg. and even if you dont have ammo you run the risk of goin boom if you stay hot to long.(done all the above)

[MustrumRidcully]

Sug, on 04 January 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

Heat is only a problem for the people that are used to the crazy No Heat/Infinite Ammo MW4 matches. It's not that hard, if you're over heating......stop firing your weapons for a bit.

Heat management is part of the game.

Yes, but the heat managenet that is in the game is not really all that Battletech-y feeling.

You see, avoiding a shutdown is not the only thing that happens with heat in Battletech. Battletech is a lot about finding or recongizing a good firing position to risk some heat penalties. Sometimes you have to take a bad and risky shot and take the penalties for it, because next turn you might be off even worse, and in other situations you better hold your fire and wait for the next turn where you can outmaneuver your foe and have the best firing position.

[PANZERBUNNY]

A speed nerf for being in the red would make sense until you cool down.

[General Taskeen]

Sug, on 04 January 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

Heat is only a problem for the people that are used to the crazy No Heat/Infinite Ammo MW4 matches. It's not that hard, if you're over heating......stop firing your weapons for a bit.

Heat management is part of the game.

I didn't say I have heat problems. But I do feel sorry a little on the inside for killing every Trial Heat Monster Mech . Them crazy stock builds man.

Edited by General Taskeen, 04 January 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[Deamhan]

From my understanding of what I've read, since I haven't played, is that each turn you shoot, add up the heat, subtract the Heat sink score and that is the heat left with.

Eg. You fire and generate 12 heat, and you have a heat sink score of 10. 12 - 10 = 2 and so at the end of the round you are left with 2 heat which you then start the next round with. If you keep this up, you will continue to generate heat. If you then generate 10 heat per round, you with maintain the same heat level and if you generate less heat, then the heat score drops.

I also read that a turn is 10 seconds. That is quite a bit of time. If, in the TT, you shoot a medium laser once per turn, then that would be like putting a 10 second cycle on the medium lasers in this game?

From my experience with TT (World of Darkness and Dungeons and Dragons), it does it's best to order things and relate them to real world but it really can't do it all that well.

Let's look at the generation of heat from a real world perspective.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is that, the transfer rate of heat depends on a couple factors.

1. The difference in temperature. As more heat is generated, there would be a faster transference of heat from whatever is hot to the cooling medium (whether it is air, water, etc.). That means, as our mechs heat up, the hotter they are, the faster they should cool. As the heat level drops, the rate at which it drops should slow.

2. Surface area. The greater the surface area, the faster heat energy transfers. Think of your cpu. The heat from the cpu transfers to the heat sink, the heat sink being made of a thermally conductive material and shaped to maximize surface area. The fan passes air over it because if the air was stagnant, it would heat up and well, see point 1.

Since the transfer rate increases as the difference between the source and cooling medium increases, provided that the temperature of the cooling medium is maintained, the heat sink become more efficient as it gets hotter. Up to a critical temp at which point it falls off rapidly.

The way I see it is that the cycle time of the weapons can be viewed as the turn base marker. They should then shift the TT scale for one turn equaling 1 second instead of 10 and make the standard cycle time 2 seconds. With weapons that can only be fired once every 2 or 3 turns (if they exist in the TT) having their cycle times 4 or 6 seconds respectively.

As for the heat. I would prefer a bit of a physical simulation rather than a simple point per time system.