7 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

I know nothing is guaranteed, even AFTER the 11-6 patch, but this talk of 1.4 efficiency is disturbing. Yes, doubling the efficiency may buff some mechs over others, but that is the idea. Since DHS are so bulky, few can carry more than a handful over the stock engine ones.

BUT, Battletech has always been rife with mechs that were cool running designs (and of course, with ones that run like ovens)., and even some that were notoriously heat neutral. As of the current idea of 1.4, only Gaussapults seem to pull this off, whilst many of the mechs actually are no better off than before DHS, since they needed more singles, but singles are easy to squeeze in.

Especially with collisions temporarily out of the game, this basically gives one little reason to run anything BUT Jenners, as they are among the few with space to spare.

My concern had always been that this would become AtlasWarrior Online, now I wonder if we are seeing the birth of JennerWarrior Online. Did Phelan Kell pay you guys off so his Wolfhound had a better chance against Atlases or something?

Seriously though, I have pretty much always supported PGI and felt that there was a method to your madness, but in this instance I simply cannot see it. Star League (and Clan Tech) is inherently NOT balanced. And that is the point, and why it is supposed to be som expensive to obtain and maintain. It's like taking an M1A! Abrams tank, and trying to nerf it so that it is "Balanced" against an old Sherman tank.

New , improved tech is supposed to be just that. The balance is supposed to be in the cost and availability, making it a gamble to run the buffed tech, since getting your new shiny wrecked could bankrupt you.

Thanks for letting me rant!

[Lerzpftz]

Quote

Double Heat Sinks (DHS)

• Fixed a bug where DHS where Engine Heat Sinks were not be converted to DHS.
  
• Single Heat Sink = 1.0
  
• Double Heat Sink = 1.4

Uhm...so after the fix that turns engine heat sinks into DHS, an Awesome or Jenner will have less heat efficiency than now, when engine heat sinks are SHS?

Before the reset i had an Awesome 9M having 8 DHS out of engine and 10 engine SHS, giving it a heat efficieny of (8 x 2)+10 = 26 ... with the "engine fix" this build would have 18 x 1.4 = 25.2 ? All this while i pay 1.5 million cbills to "?upgrade?" from 30+ SHS? This doesn't seem to make sense. I mean ... yes, upgrading from 26 SHS to 18 DHS frees me 8 tons, but i can't use them anyway since i run out of crit space. ^^

Quote

After fixing the EHS bug, and setting DHS to a canon value of 2.0, we experienced anticipated results. Heat was no longer a concern, increasing DPS exponentially on certain types of mech loadouts.

I think you forgot to test with (ER) PPC and (ER) Laser.

Quote

Heat Bug

Testing revealed a long standing issue with how heat was calculated for some weapons.

• Total Generated was used as Heat Per Second.
  
• The fix now calculates Heat Per Second based on Total Generated Heat.

This affects Small, Medium, Large Pulse Laser, and Small Lasers. They will now produce more heat when fired and work as originally intended.

I really hope i misunderstood something.

A medium pulse laser generated 5 heat over 0.75 seconds beam duration. If you say "Total Generated was used as Heat Per Second.", that means, a medium pulse laser generated only 3.75 heat per shot until now?

Which also means, you are fixing this to 5 heat per shot, as intended ... making pulse laser even less viable? Funny.

Edited by Lerzpftz, 03 November 2012 - 04:57 AM.

[Stickjock]

Quote

PGI will monitor DHS' closely and tune this number up or down depending on the telemetry data received from production servers.

Still yet again I see everyone completely ignore this part of the post... that they're going to monitor gameplay and adjust the efficiency up or down depending on what they see on the live servers...

Everyone is so ready to cry "doom and gloom" that they fail to see that bit... and fail to remember that PGI is monitoring everything about the game and adjusting things when they see they need adjustment...

[Bishop Steiner]

Stickjock, on 03 November 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

Still yet again I see everyone completely ignore this part of the post... that they're going to monitor gameplay and adjust the efficiency up or down depending on what they see on the live servers...

Everyone is so ready to cry "doom and gloom" that they fail to see that bit... and fail to remember that PGI is monitoring everything about the game and adjusting things when they see they need adjustment...

I have at no point ignored it, NOR cried doom and gloom. The DHS are already inadequate as they ARE. Tuning things so that mechs with more than 10-11 actually get LESS value out of them id a bad idea from the start. You will also note most of your "doom and gloom" posts are teh same core group of complainers over and over again, whereas, out of hundreds of posts, this is my second one on the verge of being a "complaint" (Still waiting on the PPC buff that was mentioned weeks ago, but also realize they don't just snap fingers and "Bazing! Fixed!")

That said, this is a SUGGESTION Forum. There were plenty of 3025 "cool running" builds from canon that were not viable with the old Single HeatSink system For them to STILL be non-viable with "advanced" tech DHS? A cause for concern.

(And leaves me wondering about Clan Mechs, since many run even greater heat burdens, or will they get more compact AND more efficient heat sinks?)

Every post that mentions a potential issue is not compalining and ignoring things. But thank you for being the Forum Police.

[costi]

Stickjock, on 03 November 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

Still yet again I see everyone completely ignore this part of the post... that they're going to monitor gameplay and adjust the efficiency up or down depending on what they see on the live servers...

Everyone is so ready to cry "doom and gloom" that they fail to see that bit... and fail to remember that PGI is monitoring everything about the game and adjusting things when they see they need adjustment...

Do you know why? Because this is exactly the same as the economy tweak a few patches past, when repair and rearm was introduced. PGI then said "we will monitor it", but a child with a calculator could've predicted the result (which was fixed, to give them justice).
This is the same - PGI is releasing numbers which are completely unreasonable. Useless weapons will stay useless (PPC, ERPPC, ERLL), some weapons which were viable will not be so viable anymore, and one of the most important systems, which up until now was pointless, remains pointless. Do we really need to test that for a week, when it's obvious it will not work out?

BTW. it's quite hypocrytical when a wepon system generating less heat is "a bug" and needs to be fixed, while DHS having much less efficiency is a design feature and working as intended.

[MustrumRidcully]

It's particuarly disturbing to me because the current heat production vs dissipation generation rate already lead to notable balance issues and make weapons like ER Lasers or (ER) PPCs extremely unattractive. DHS wouldn't fix future mechs that are build around DHS, but at least they would allow us to take current stock configs and make them work reasonably by replacing standard sinks with DHS.

[Lerzpftz]

Stickjock, on 03 November 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

Still yet again I see everyone completely ignore this part of the post... that they're going to monitor gameplay and adjust the efficiency up or down depending on what they see on the live servers...

Everyone is so ready to cry "doom and gloom" that they fail to see that bit... and fail to remember that PGI is monitoring everything about the game and adjusting things when they see they need adjustment...

Funny. You are complaining about complaints that simply were criticism. I trust PGI enough to assume, they are fixing things up after a while. But, as costi already mentioned above, the numbers they picked are simply strange, regarding the heat situation as it is now.

With the proposed fix all 4 of my mechs are less effective than they are now and one is even less effective than with SHS, since i read about the engine fix before i read about this 1.4 factor kicking in. This is after i paid 6 million for upgrading them to DHS instead of getting a new chassis. I could, of course, switch back to SHS for some weeks and 3 million cbills until they realize, that this won't work very good. Than i could pay another 6 million to get the DHS back, once they adjusted the numbers.

That would get on my nerves quite a bit. And it is not necessary, if you calculate some simple examples.

Edited by Lerzpftz, 03 November 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[Bloody Moon]

If they meant only EHS will be working at 1.4 after the upgrade, then sure i agree. In case it will be a rule for all DHSs then i might have to consider "downgrading" one of my mechs to SHSs so all in all not a big deal for me, then again this would mean DHSs are only worth it in Cicadas and lighter mechs which seems redundant for me in the current situation.

But hey i will provide feedback on Heatsinks after i see them in action especially since changing them after the patch would be easy enough for them.