81 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Phase 1 Matchmaking revisions will limit Premade group sizes to just 4 players out of the total 8-player team size, such that any Lone Player will be facing equal likelyhoods of fighting alongside and/or against Premade groups.

The prior situation with groups up-to-8 players in size created an environment where entire teams of random players were pitted against whole teams of players who know eachother and are probably playing with VoIP communications. This can't happen anymore. In fact, all teams will have an equal chance of hosting premade Lances of up-to-4 players, meaning that Lone Players will, on average [over the course of days], be both reinforced and opposed by equal amounts of "premadeness." Also, the Premade Groups will ALWAYS have random players on their team instead of possesing the ability to link all of their teammates over their own private comms network.

Now that random Pick-Up Gamers will fight both alongside and against Premade Lances with equal frequency, how will this change gameplay dymanics?

Will the new "PUGstomping" beccome a Lance-based exercise with 4-player groups roaming the field while leaving their 4 random players behind?
Will the Premade groups utilize the text chat features more frequently?
Will Lone Wolves try to participate in joint exercises with the Premades?
Will all the players on a premade chat back-and-forth with the PUGers, or will you assign a "Text Liaison?"


What will you do, personally, with the change in the system?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 06 November 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Krivvan]

Quote

Will the new "PUGstomping" beccome a Lance-based exercise with 4-player groups roaming the field while leaving their 4 random players behind?

The number of stomps will remain about as frequent (just as they were before groups in general) but now it's about blaming the other team for having more premades than the other.

[shintakie]

I know this discussion is more for the premades, but I'm hopin it fosters more communication in game. The text chat interface is friggin terrible, sure, but its there and should be used for more than gl hf at the start and gg at the end.

[Krivvan]

shintakie, on 06 November 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

I know this discussion is more for the premades, but I'm hopin it fosters more communication in game. The text chat interface is friggin terrible, sure, but its there and should be used for more than gl hf at the start and gg at the end.

I'm actually predicting that people will heed the text chat even less. Before with pure pug groups a good number of them would actually listen to me, now I suspect any premade of 4 will ignore a pug giving them advice and the team will get fragmented in two.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Krivvan, on 06 November 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

The number of stomps will remain about as frequent (just as they were before groups in general) but now it's about blaming the other team for having more premades than the other.

Yeah, but the old ways allowed 8-player Pain Trains to charge through the Map; now your 4-Player Attack Lance has a pretty likely chance of encountering another one.

I'm concerned about how premades and random players might interact in the sence that Premades might appear "Holier than thou" by inviting random players to participate with them. Chioce of tone and wording in-game might require careful forethought.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 06 November 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[Comassion]

Krivvan, on 06 November 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

I'm actually predicting that people will heed the text chat even less. Before with pure pug groups a good number of them would actually listen to me, now I suspect any premade of 4 will ignore a pug giving them advice and the team will get fragmented in two.

That's definitely not my plan. I'll be chatting with whatever pugs we drop with to try to get them to stick with us for the most coordination we can manage in a match. If a pug starts that up first and it's not a horrible plan, I'll probably have the team go with it.

[Operant]

Prosperity Park, on 06 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Will the new "PUGstomping" beccome a Lance-based exercise with 4-player groups roaming the field while leaving their 4 random players behind?

This. Pugs are incompetent and not only do premades not want to type to them, but the pugs don't listen anyway.

[Mu]

Well, last night we only had 5 people for like 15 matches and easily won all of them. So...now it's gonna be almost the same thing except we don't need to worry about full groups of 8. I don't think voice coordination is even the biggest advantage, it's just having people who know what the hell they are doing and are serious about the game. Someone just screwing around solo might be less likely to put in the time (or money) to grind out a badass customized mech than some guy who joins a merc corp and only plays in organized teams. Not saying this is always the case, I mean I ran solo for like my entire first month and played a LOT.

Also we never talked to our pugs except to tell them to stop capping because we wanted to leg the guy who thought he could run away for 10 minutes.

Since we're gonna have ~16 people in our vent server looking for groups we might just have to coordinate launching so we don't fight one another. Or not...infighting's fun too!

[Mancu]

I'm thinking that this will lead to more even matches kill-wise. Individual players won't necessarily win anymore than they did before but it should end a good number of the 8-0 stomps that have been happening. I would also like to believe that it will help to end some of the more poisonous arguments that have been dominating the forums lately.

[Phelan Ward-Kell]

Prosperity Park, on 06 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Will the Premade groups utilize the text chat features more frequently?

Screw this. The frequency at which pugs actually listen to orders in the chat system is probably 20% at best.
Even if 6-7 of the guys are on comms with me, those 1-2 remaining players that are pugs still run off half-cocked and get themselves killed.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I sense a disturbance in the force, as if a billion players on VoIP all screamed out in frustration at once at the pick-up gamers.

[Krivvan]

Comassion, on 06 November 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

That's definitely not my plan. I'll be chatting with whatever pugs we drop with to try to get them to stick with us for the most coordination we can manage in a match. If a pug starts that up first and it's not a horrible plan, I'll probably have the team go with it.

The problem is that, unfortunately, most players won't be like you. I've seen enough small premade groups and pugs simply dismiss anyone offering advice and going off alone saying that their stats are amazing and that they don't need any help only to die.

[Mister Blastman]

The one thing I'm looking forward to is instead of having 8 clanmates on comms, having multiple groups of 4 on comms only to face off against each other! Think of the glorious engagements to be had!

This is what I look forward to. Finally, a true way to test our might.

[Broceratops]

i think a lot of people who think they're gods at this game despite having no history of exceptional success at any other game will come to realize that this game is no different than those other games

[Krivvan]

Mister Blastman, on 06 November 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

The one thing I'm looking forward to is instead of having 8 clanmates on comms, having multiple groups of 4 on comms only to face off against each other! Think of the glorious engagements to be had!

This is what I look forward to. Finally, a true way to test our might.

Even in this current patch we've been organizing premade groups of 8 against other premade groups of 8.

It's definitely much more fun.

[Kivin]

Krivvan, on 06 November 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

I'm actually predicting that people will heed the text chat even less. Before with pure pug groups a good number of them would actually listen to me, now I suspect any premade of 4 will ignore a pug giving them advice and the team will get fragmented in two.

While this is very probably true of some premade groups, I don't think it is a "one size fits all" description. I have run about one hundred twenty five premade matches using the No Guts No Galaxy teamspeak in the past week with perhaps fourty distinct players and I can't imagine even a single one of them acting that way. We use the intel we get, no matter where it comes from.

If a pubbie showed the initiative to give actionable intel in a timely fashion, our premade would almost certainly respond positively to it. I'm imagining a teamspeaker saying "A PUGer says there's two CATs coming through the tunnel" followed by a response "I'm bringing my Atlas up the delta five grid."

Furthermore, when we've been a partial PUG, one of us is frequently doing outreach. Granted, it often degrades to "We're a premade so don't be a ******** and get your head blown off in the first ten seconds. Watch our backs." but, still...

Edited by Kivin, 06 November 2012 - 10:11 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Me and my pals have already been doing text-only semi-pre-made drops where I use text to both guide my team mates and the PUG players. We have been extremely successful doing so, and I find that the benefits of showing newer players how well team play can work vastly out-shine the frustrations of players who won't/can't go along with commands.

If you are working in a pre-made, the very least you can do, to benefit both your team and the PUGs who are playing with you is say "we're a pre-made, follow our lead."

[Phelan Ward-Kell]

Krivvan, on 06 November 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

The problem is that, unfortunately, most players won't be like you. I've seen enough small premade groups and pugs simply dismiss anyone offering advice and going off alone saying that their stats are amazing and that they don't need any help only to die.

From the same token, who should be following the lead of whom? The 4-man group on comms together, with quicker communication and better familiarity with each others skills and loadouts, or the 4 random guys in the drop who have to stop and type to communicate, and who have no clue what their other 7 teammates are packing?

[QuantumButler]

PuGs will still complain about premades pugstomping forever, nothing will change.

[Tastian]

PUGs are a mixed bag:

1 Some are genuine new players that do not know how to group their weapons, lock on to targets, hide behind buildings, or deal with torso twisting. I've found that these players want to learn.

2 Others are cbill farmers running trials who simply want to die and move on to the next match.

3 Others just don't know how to play or work with a team in general. They continually die or shoot teammates in the back or run out of bounds. They also tend to rambo or not stick with the team.

4 Finally, there are the decent players who do listen. They may try to organize the group. They play well and are a good shot. If the PUG is running all over the place, they are forced to just solo kill. But if someone calls the shots, they will listen and be a key player.

I think having a mixed PUG/Premade group will be beneficial. New players will get some instruction. Cbill farmers would also benefit from having a more organized team (more kills, more wins, more money). And the good PUG players will continue to be good players. But those players that fall into category 3. There is no hope for them.