7 replies to this topic

[MushrooMars]

Or however you guys say it, the LB-AC/10X or whatever. In practice, many of you may have noticed LBX/10s aren't really useful for much more than hunting light mechs, and even then, SSRMs tend to do that job better. The real reason LBX/10s were effective on the field is because they can fire both Cluster rounds and Standard AutoCannon rounds (either HEAP or Kinetic).

The way they generally work is that the Standard rounds are used to punch a hole through a piece of armor, then the Cluster rounds are loaded to exploit that hole; 10 rounds in a cone doing 1 damage each have a much higher chance of hitting their target, at least partially, than a single, slow-moving round.

In gameplay, this may be seen occasionally, but Assaults and Heavies are so damn slow that no one would really have a problem focusing down a specific part of them with any AutoCannon. The real point of this suggestion for MWO is to make LBXes a multipurpose weapon; they can both hunt lights, and they can kill heavier mechs, which is a kind of weapon we really do need. That is, we need that kind of weapon to counter SSRMs.

[Telthalion]

Switching ammo types is something they've said they want to add at some point, but it's not a high priority so it'll be a while.

[Nintyuk]

As a LBX Dragon I support this idea.

[Ghosth]

This is a must, and should happen asap.

[MushrooMars]

This is the kind of thing that wouldn't be hard to implement, and in this specific case, wouldn't be hard to balance.

Come on devs! Add a keybind for 'Cycle Ammo Feed'. Assuming your framework isn't unbelievably complicated and convoluted, this is the kind of thin that takes an hour to implement and bugfix, tops.

I'm calling you guys out on this!

[1453 R]

I knew there was a thread on this already. it may be four months old, but hell with it, it's getting yanked up anyways. Forum rules and all that.

After a discussion with a buddy last night and the slightest bit of logical thinking, I give you:

The Reason Why the LBX Autocannons Will Never Have Selectable Ammunition. At least in their current iteration.

Fact 1: the LBX/10 weighs one ton less, occupies one less critical slot, and generates one less heat point than the basic AC/10.
Fact 2: Ammunition is ammunition - any game that has different weapons do different damage with the same caliber of munition is doing it wrong and needs to stop.
Fact 3: Just because you can take different ammunition types for an LBX autocannon does not mean you need to.
Fact 4: Taking a machine which normally equips an AC/10 and re-equipping it with an LBX/10, without changing out any of its normal AC/10 ammunition, allows that machine to generate one free ton and one free critical slot at no cost to damage performance and, in fact, at a slight profit to heat generation.

Selectable ammunition, without some sort of counterbalance, would render the standard AC/10 strictly inferior to the LBX/10. Even single heat sinks are not strictly inferior to doubles - doubles have a marked critical slot cost increase over singles, save for engine-mounted heat sinks. An LBX/10 with selectable ammunition, however, would have every single conceivable advantage over the basic AC/10 - greater range, more flexible ammunition loads, less weight, less crits, less heat, etcetera.

This is No Bueno and goes against the principles of fair and balanced game design. I would love for my various munitions-based weapons to be able to switch between different ammunition types on the fly (though remembering the days of MW2:M makes me wonder if Inferno missiles could ever possibly be a good idea), but the system would need considerable tweaking in order to make it truly viable, methinks. The LBX/10 would have to suffer some sort of performance penalty when using standard 80mm rounds, and frankly that'd defeat the purpose of selectable ammunition in the first place.

The only way I can see it happening is if the standard AC/10 itself gains access to ammunition types the LBX doesn't - an AP round, say, to emphasize its role as an armor buster over the LBX. Then it becomes a choice of what ammunition loads you antto carry - is the extra weight, crit space, and decreased range of the AC/10 worth that extra X% damage modifier against still-armored components to you? Even then though, people'd snarl and complain and stuff because the LBX is supposed to be able to fire anything a standard autocannon can. The problem only gets worse as time goes on and other weights of LBX cannon come online. We'd get an entire classification of weapon - the standard autocannon - which would not harm the game whatsoever (mechanically, mechanically, not lore-wise!) were it to be removed entirely and all current 'Mechs reconfigured to carry LBX cannons instead.

So. What do you folks suggest as solutions to the conundrum? Because I don't see an easy answer to it that would satisfy any of the folks who're currently harping for selectable munitions in the first place. At this point it honestly seems more realistic to just give the LBX autocannons a flat damage buff over the basic types, let them do more total damage at the expense of spreading that damage out. Which is itself not a great idea. So...what do we hope Piranha eventually gets around to doing?

[Woska]

Yes, this would be very nice to have. And of course it also means you have to mix and match your ammo load out for that weapon.

[Kell Commander]

I support this as long as people also bring the different ammo types. As long as you have at least 1 ton of LB 10X ammo AND 1 ton of regular ac 10 ammo this is a good idea.