22 replies to this topic

[Blackfire1]

THIS IS NOT A NETCODE / LAG SHIELD THREAD. I've been around way too long to not know that.

-story-
So I'm heard this rumor often. That Lights only take half damage from non-light mechs.
I'm thinking. "Psh that's gotta be bullsh#t." Or "Its just a lag shield."

Lag shield? Yea nothing new. Its been around since early beta. Till this happened.

I watched a jenner stand toe to toe with an atlas. 3 guass rounds to the center torso. 6 large laser blasts.... And an SRM for good measure.

It ran away. O_o.... wtf. It took damage. it was orange... Only orange.... O_O... 3 guass rounds and 6 large laser blasts is 87 point of damage... Thats more damage then the entire mech has in armor.

Currently there are no god mode hacks for this game.

Please someone explain how this happened. Because if it was moving. I'd say lag shield. But toe to toe... Damn.. I need to activate fraps when I play.

EDIT: Problem solved. It seems it was a bug to fix the lag armor. Only made it worst. Vlad's context was wrong. But the answer was right.

Edited by Blackfire1, 01 November 2012 - 09:04 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

No.

They just have Lag Armor™.

Don't aim where they are. Aim where they're going to be.

Edit: Oh. Not netcode?

Then just no. They don't. I've one-shot enough Jenners with my patented Lag-Leading-Shot™ from my AWS-9M to know that they don't take half damage from jack.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 01 November 2012 - 08:56 PM.

[Blackfire1]

Vlad Ward, on 01 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

No.

They just have Lag Armor™.

Don't aim where they are. Aim where they're going to be.

Person number 1 who didn't read the post. Good job looking foolish.

Edited by Blackfire1, 01 November 2012 - 08:57 PM.

[Krivvan]

I've noticed that hit detection is worse when a mech isn't moving in this patch. Might just be my perception though. I never looked into it.

[Stonefalcon]

No light mechs do not take half damage from other weight classes.

Proven firing 6 PPCs through a jenner, he died. If it was half damage he would have lived although just barely.

[Blackfire1]

Same here. I never really looked at it till I was told that by a few people. Both in and out of skjaldborg. :\

As I said. Lag Armor nothing new. But he wasn't moving.

[Vlad Ward]

Blackfire1, on 01 November 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Person number 1 who didn't read the post. Good job looking foolish.

And the correct answer is still lag.

They don't take half damage from jack.

Edit: You're severely underestimating just how bad the netcode is at the moment.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 01 November 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[Blackfire1]

Stonefalcon, on 01 November 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

No light mechs do not take half damage from other weight classes.

Proven firing 6 PPCs through a jenner, he died. If it was half damage he would have lived although just barely.

Could it just have been a very weird hit detection bug then?

And after firing those 6 ppc's you instantly exploded from the heat right?

[Lin Shai]

It's because hit detection is completely FUBAR at the moment.

It's not just when shooting at light mechs; I've stood (stationary) 20 feet behind a stationary mech firing into its back ... and doing no damage.

They've said there's a partial fix coming: http://mwomercs.com/...4-known-issues/ but we'll see. The last patch really broke hit detection.

Edited by Lin Shai, 01 November 2012 - 09:01 PM.

[Blackfire1]

I've not seen lag bypass hit detection on non moving mechs. Ever. :\

Lin Shai, on 01 November 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

It's because hit detection is completely FUBAR at the moment.

It's not just when shooting at light mechs; I've stood (stationary) behind a stationary mech firing into it's back ... and doing no damage.

They've said there's a partial fix coming: http://mwomercs.com/...4-known-issues/ but we'll see. The last patch really broke hit detection.

AAAAAaah gotcha. So it was an update that was ment to fix the problem. But only make it worse by effecting none moving mechs. Cheeky basturd of a bug.

[Stonefalcon]

Blackfire1, on 01 November 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Could it just have been a very weird hit detection bug then?

And after firing those 6 ppc's you instantly exploded from the heat right?

HAHA nope, we here at TPL have fine tuned the "Thor's Hammer" to perfection. Unfortunately I haven't gotten around to rebuilding it cause it's so damn expensive.

[Vlad Ward]

I've never missed a stationary Mech. And I run almost all Laser configs, which are extremely precise.

Pretty much every wiff I see I've been able to attribute to netcode or just poor targeting on my part.

[Blackfire1]

Stonefalcon, on 01 November 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

HAHA nope, we here at TPL have fine tuned the "Thor's Hammer" to perfection. Unfortunately I haven't gotten around to rebuilding it cause it's so damn expensive.

Well hell. Double Heat Sinks will be an Odin Send won't it.

[CocoaJin]

Ive shot a stationary mech, only to do no damage because there was enough lag that he was already sprinting away sever side by the time I fired client side.

If the light you fired 3 gauss at was stationary long enough to be shot that many times, it could have been due to some packet loss to and/or from the server. 12 secs is a long time for any light pilot worth his salt to remaim stationary while taking fire himself....was he firing back the whole time while stationary.

Edited by CocoaJin, 01 November 2012 - 11:41 PM.

[Synra]

I never subscribe to the lag claims. That is just one of many factors involved, and it doesn't apply to everyone.

If a light seems hard to kill there are a number of very good reasons:

1. Most players are not very good at actually hitting with the weapons. Blame lag all you want, but I see a lot of people who simply don't use lasers properly (hold them on the target for full damage), or miss like crazy with projectile weapons.

2. In addition to #1, a fast moving mech is simply a lot harder to hit, even without lag. The higher speed mechs are also fairly smaller in size, making them a smaller target as well.

3. Properly played these mechs rarely stop moving. You don't have the luxury of focusing your fire on a single location, the way you can on larger slower mechs. Against an Atlas you can stand there and shoot whatever location you feel like. But just try to focus your fire on the right torso of a Jenner. It's not happening. You take whatever shot you are given. They may be lightly armored, but the damage gets spread all around their mech. I call this the Applecore effect. Spreading damage is a skill or trick we use when piloting larger mechs, but for fast mechs it just happens naturally.

4. LRMs are worth mentioning here. Without the aid of TAG or NARC, LRMs simply will not hit a high speed mech in full stride. Against larger mechs LRMs are a great tool for softening up their armor. But you generally don't get to take advantage of this effect on fast mechs.

5. Lots of players simply ignore lights. Whatever reason they think they have, they simply do not shoot at a light mech until it is the very last mech on the enemy team. Maybe they don't see it as a threat. Maybe they don't think they can hit it. Maybe they think it's just baiting your team. Either way, lights generally take less damage over time simply because people don't make enough effort to shoot them.


All of these reasons combined can add up to the light mechs (and cicada) seeming to be a lot more difficult to kill than they really are.

Edited by Synra, 01 November 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[Blackfire1]

Normally.

1. He stopped moving.
2. He went toe to toe with an atlas.
3. There is no god mode in this game.
4. Lag shield exists. But I didn't know its extent buged out to the point hit detection was effected on a non-moving target.

[Vlad Ward]

A server desync would explain why it appeared that a Jenner was going toe to toe with an Atlas. I can't think of any pilot crazy enough to do something like that intentionally.

Would also explain why he registered 0 damage.

[Blackfire1]

He didn't register 0. But he did take a majority less then he should have.

[Lin Shai]

CocoaJin, on 01 November 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Ive shot a stationary mech, only to do no damage because there was enough lag that he was already sprinting away sever side by the time I fired client side.

If the light you fired 3 gauss at was stationary long enough to be shot that many times, it could have been due to some packet loss to and/or from the server. 12 secs is a long time for any light pilot worth his salt to remaim stationary....was he firing back the whole time while stationary.

Dude, seriously ... prior to the last patch I never had a problem hitting anything through months of closed beta, including moving lights. I'm a US player with < 60ms ping and most of the time the people I'm playing against are the same.

After the last patch, hit detection went out the window. Not only do I have to lead everything, even lumbering Atlases ... often a stationary target registers no damage. There's been numerous posts by people describing the same thing. This is firing lasers.

And yes, when playing a scout against PUGers ... it's not uncommon to stand stationary behind a missile boat or atlas shooting it in the back several times before it notices and starts moving / turns around. Sad, but true.

The other day I got rocked by an AC/20 from an atlas I didn't notice while perched (stationary) spotting for my team - cockpit shook, loud noises, armor indicators lits up ... no damage taken.

I've changed over to using streaks right now because they actually hit and do damage.

Hopefully they roll back whatever they broke.

[Valore]

That's funny. I play from Australia with 250 - 300 ping, could never hit lights, and still can't.

Its not a matter of missing. Missiles would graphically hit, as would lasers, leaving laser burn marks. But the mech would take no damage. The only reliable way was to fire until the circle turned red and lead roughly according to that.

But I've NEVER had problems hitting larger slower mechs. Even after the last patch. So I'm actually pretty surprised that you bring this up.