16 replies to this topic

[Connor Davion]

Hi everyone I know my friends at MWO can help me with some good advice. I am looking to build a new rig. My requirements are simple I need it to come in under 500usd. Other than that I already have a copy of 7 Ultimate so no OS is needed. And the monitor need not be included in the build (but monitor suggestions are appreciated too)

[Lumunix]

Your budget is really scraping rock bottom in terms of a gaming rig, i tried my hand at it and configured a nice budget build for $494.92

- In the budget world AMD owns the this bracket in performance
-A quad core CPU+GPU this has graphics built onto the chip
-a dedicated graphics card 6670 now here is where this budget build shines the integrated gpu on the chip is in crossfire mode with the dedicated gpu giving you a massive graphics performance boost in this price range.
-8gb of ram, perfect amount for anything you wish to do from basic photoshop to gaming
- decent storage drive
- A case with great airflow



http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813130661 MSI FM2 socket motherboard micro atx 49.99

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811352009 Fractal Design Core 1000 case 39.99

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819113280 AMD A10 CPU+GPU 129.99
-For the price the AMD A series chips blow the core I3's out of the water in terms of onboard graphics

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139026 Corsair 430W PSU 44.99

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820233144 Corsair Vengence 1600mhz ram 40.99

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822136697 500gb WD Caviar black harddrive 99.99
-extremely fast mechanical based harddrive

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827118031 Dirt cheap CD/DVD rom drive 18.99

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814127666 MSI 6670 GPU 69.99


Total $494.92

Edited by YellowDragon, 02 November 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[Neuromancerx]

I'm not in the mood to write out a whole list of what I would suggest, item by item, and wait for people to critique it...

However, these are my suggestions:

1. Think long term. You can upgrade in stages. Make sure the parts that are simple and cheap to swap out, are on the cheap end, and pay more for things that you need to last.

2. A good power supply is important, not only because a poor one will fail with little notice, but because modern games place a lot of demand on your rig. Make sure the one you get is from a company with a good reputation, and has a solid warranty.

3. The cpu/mobo/ram needs to play nicely together. These are things you may not be able to upgrade a couple years down the road, or would do so at a cost that makes it pointless. RAM goes up in cost when it's no longer current (look at DDR2 prices vs. DDR3). I would suggest getting 16 gigs now, while it's extremely cheap. Make sure it's matched well with the motherboard, and buy from a vendor that will allow you to return it if it is not.

4. Graphics cards have come a long way, but they're still considered somewhat disposable. Make sure your motherboard can accommodate upgrades, but don't drop too much cash on the video card. While it's true that most FPS games will benefit the most from a graphics card, the best cards now will be worth very little in a year. So consider your graphics card as something you will replace more often than your cpu/mobo/ram. especially if you are on a budget.

5. Be careful with hard drives. A high failure rate, due to poor QA, driven by low cost demands has caused many drives to crap out quickly. Best bet is to get a pair of smaller drives, and use one to backup(clone) the other, and burn the snot out of them the first month. Most drives that will fail will do so in the first month (electronics in general), so make sure you run them ragged during that time since it will be much easier to return/replace them with your preferred vendor during that time.

Just to be a jerk, and comment on the list above (without providing my own [conveniently]):

I would up the PSU to a 750+ watt. Corsair is good, so no argument there.

I would up the RAM to 16gb (because it's so damn cheap now),

I can't comment on the CPU, but he's absolutely right that AMD is better for your dollar if you're on a budget.

I'm not sure where the idea of black caviars being fast comes from, but they're nothing special. They also happen to be the drives I use. I have 4x 1TB of black caviars, 2 failed in the first 30 days, 1 failed about 6 months out. All were swapped with no issue, so I have no complaints about the customer service, but don't expect them to be drastically different for gaming performance compared to a less expensive model. It's also crummy that they went up so much in price. My black's were under $100 per TB, but natural disasters changed the price point a lot since then. $100 for 500 gigs is too much. You won't have a backup drive, and you won't see any difference (aside from load times), compared to a lesser model.

Anyways, good luck, have fun!

[Lumunix]

Neuromancerx, on 02 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

I'm not in the mood to write out a whole list of what I would suggest, item by item, and wait for people to critique it...

However, these are my suggestions:

1. Think long term. You can upgrade in stages. Make sure the parts that are simple and cheap to swap out, are on the cheap end, and pay more for things that you need to last.

2. A good power supply is important, not only because a poor one will fail with little notice, but because modern games place a lot of demand on your rig. Make sure the one you get is from a company with a good reputation, and has a solid warranty.

3. The cpu/mobo/ram needs to play nicely together. These are things you may not be able to upgrade a couple years down the road, or would do so at a cost that makes it pointless. RAM goes up in cost when it's no longer current (look at DDR2 prices vs. DDR3). I would suggest getting 16 gigs now, while it's extremely cheap. Make sure it's matched well with the motherboard, and buy from a vendor that will allow you to return it if it is not.

4. Graphics cards have come a long way, but they're still considered somewhat disposable. Make sure your motherboard can accommodate upgrades, but don't drop too much cash on the video card. While it's true that most FPS games will benefit the most from a graphics card, the best cards now will be worth very little in a year. So consider your graphics card as something you will replace more often than your cpu/mobo/ram. especially if you are on a budget.

5. Be careful with hard drives. A high failure rate, due to poor QA, driven by low cost demands has caused many drives to crap out quickly. Best bet is to get a pair of smaller drives, and use one to backup(clone) the other, and burn the snot out of them the first month. Most drives that will fail will do so in the first month (electronics in general), so make sure you run them ragged during that time since it will be much easier to return/replace them with your preferred vendor during that time.

Just to be a jerk, and comment on the list above (without providing my own [conveniently]):

I would up the PSU to a 750+ watt. Corsair is good, so no argument there.

I would up the RAM to 16gb (because it's so damn cheap now),

I can't comment on the CPU, but he's absolutely right that AMD is better for your dollar if you're on a budget.

I'm not sure where the idea of black caviars being fast comes from, but they're nothing special. They also happen to be the drives I use. I have 4x 1TB of black caviars, 2 failed in the first 30 days, 1 failed about 6 months out. All were swapped with no issue, so I have no complaints about the customer service, but don't expect them to be drastically different for gaming performance compared to a less expensive model. It's also crummy that they went up so much in price. My black's were under $100 per TB, but natural disasters changed the price point a lot since then. $100 for 500 gigs is too much. You won't have a backup drive, and you won't see any difference (aside from load times), compared to a lesser model.

Anyways, good luck, have fun!

All valid points but I would correct you on one, this build does not need a 750watt psu, that is ultra extreme overkill. Go to a power supply calculator that is the best way to recommend a power supply. The GPU I listed has no pin requirements so it draws 75watts direct from the pciE socket. rule of thumb for this A10 is a max 100% utilization peak of 125w. Hardrives draw about 15-20 watts, Fans+ USB connections about 10 watts. So a 430watt is plenty for this build.

Cavier blacks in terms of mechanical based hardrives have very good read/write speeds and as a main drive you dont go less than 7200rpm or your going to see some slow as molasses load times in games, programs, etc.

Just for clarity with built in graphics here is a video comparison between an i3 ivy bridge processor


Now take this performance and double it since the CPU crossfires with the dedicated GPU and you have a pretty powerful budget gaming rig.

Edited by YellowDragon, 02 November 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

May I recommend my $600 build of the week minus the OS given your situation? This should well outperform the above recommendations.

Case: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811147159
PSU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139026
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813128521
CPU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819106009
GPU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814127687
RAM: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820220738
HDD: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822152244
ODD: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827136247
Heatsink: stock
TIM: stock

Sale Combos: http://www.newegg.co...t=Combo.1087391
Promo Codes: EMCJNGN27


Quality is far, far more important than wattage on a power supply, and the above build will not tax that power supply, though for upgrades you may want a stronger one down the road, such as a 550 or 650 watt. When shopping for a power supply, I would recommend looking for power supplies with Seasonic or Superflower internals, though Enermax is good too generally, and CWT is okay.

[Connor Davion]

Thanks for all the input. I checked the supply cabinet and I forgot I have an OCZ stealth Xtreme 2 700w PSU brand new.

So I am really looking at the 600 build and uping the HDD to 1 TB I can still get it down 497 with that upgrade

I was wondering the AMDFX4170 versus the Core i7 (Sandybridge - 2nd gen) how do they stack up since they are the same price?

Thanks to Vulpes and everyone else

[Vulpesveritas]

Connor Davion, on 02 November 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Thanks for all the input. I checked the supply cabinet and I forgot I have an OCZ stealth Xtreme 2 700w PSU brand new.

So I am really looking at the 600 build and uping the HDD to 1 TB I can still get it down 497 with that upgrade

I was wondering the AMDFX4170 versus the Core i7 (Sandybridge - 2nd gen) how do they stack up since they are the same price?

Thanks to Vulpes and everyone else

Umm... may I ask where you can find a Sandybridge i7 new in box for $120? Because that's the price for an i3.

if you meant an i3 however, it's as fast in single thread, faster in multithread, allows for overclocking, but consumes more power.

[Connor Davion]

Vulpesveritas, on 02 November 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Umm... may I ask where you can find a Sandybridge i7 new in box for $120? Because that's the price for an i3.

if you meant an i3 however, it's as fast in single thread, faster in multithread, allows for overclocking, but consumes more power.

Well ***** I don't know what the heck I was looking at lol... But I agree on the AMD as far as best bang for the buck. My last build used a tri core AMD

[Neuromancerx]

YellowDragon, on 02 November 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

All valid points but I would correct you on one, this build does not need a 750watt psu, that is ultra extreme overkill. Go to a power supply calculator that is the best way to recommend a power supply. The GPU I listed has no pin requirements so it draws 75watts direct from the pciE socket. rule of thumb for this A10 is a max 100% utilization peak of 125w. Hardrives draw about 15-20 watts, Fans+ USB connections about 10 watts. So a 430watt is plenty for this build.

Cavier blacks in terms of mechanical based hardrives have very good read/write speeds and as a main drive you dont go less than 7200rpm or your going to see some slow as molasses load times in games, programs, etc.

Just for clarity with built in graphics here is a video comparison between an i3 ivy bridge processor


Now take this performance and double it since the CPU crossfires with the dedicated GPU and you have a pretty powerful budget gaming rig.

Critique taken.

My primary mention of using a larger PSU up front is that it's one part that can be used for years (if it is well made), and thus it makes it worthy of spending a few extra dollars on at the start. It's also one area where overkill not only doesn't hurt, but actually increases the life expectancy of the part. If you think of a PSU being like an engine, it's easier to run it at 25% idle, and 40% peak, than it would be to run it at 60% idle, and 75% peak. Mostly the issue is heat, and quality of parts, and either Corsair should be fine for that build. Of course if he decides to slap in 2 SLI'd cards two years down the road, both of which might demand 150+ watts each, it'll be game over for that PSU. It might last a couple weeks, a couple hours, or not even boot. That notion may sound silly, but when games start using multiple gpu's more effectively, we will quickly see the PSU requirement sky rocket compared to the cost of the gpu's.

Anyways, I've burned out a 950w, and an 1100w, both from good brands. The first was a Corsair, the one before was OCZ. I can't count the number of Antec's I've killed over the years, all of which were rated twice at least what was required. Fortunately Corsair and OCZ have good service, so no harm done, but if I can kill those beasts within the warranty period, I sure as heck wouldn't pay less for one that's only rated to 450w.

Anyways, take that as you will. Everyone above gave good advice, and all of it is sound. I guess I just have a knack for making things melt

[Barbaric Soul]

I'll back Vulpes recommended build

[Catamount]

Actually the OP would probably stress a 750W PSU with the build recommended more than 430W PSU. PSUs tend to run very, very inefficiency at very low power draws, and an AMD A10 and 6670 (66WTDP) probably wouldn't draw more than 150W in actual gaming on a bad day (and most of the time, probably wouldn't draw more than 125W), or 16-20% power draw on a 750W PSU. The unit would run inefficiently and it would run hotter. It's also an unnecessary additional expense on a clearly limited budget, where the money could go towards other things instead to yield an actual benefit. For instance, the price difference between a CX430 and a decent 750W PSU, if not spent on the PSU, would be enough to upgrade a 6670 to a 7750.

In any case though, I'd say just go with Vulpes' build, OP.

[lsp]

YellowDragon, on 02 November 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Your budget is really scraping rock bottom in terms of a gaming rig, i tried my hand at it and configured a nice budget build for $494.92

- In the budget world AMD owns the this bracket in performance
-A quad core CPU+GPU this has graphics built onto the chip
-a dedicated graphics card 6670 now here is where this budget build shines the integrated gpu on the chip is in crossfire mode with the dedicated gpu giving you a massive graphics performance boost in this price range.
-8gb of ram, perfect amount for anything you wish to do from basic photoshop to gaming
- decent storage drive
- A case with great airflow



http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813130661 MSI FM2 socket motherboard micro atx 49.99

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811352009 Fractal Design Core 1000 case 39.99

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819113280 AMD A10 CPU+GPU 129.99
-For the price the AMD A series chips blow the core I3's out of the water in terms of onboard graphics

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139026 Corsair 430W PSU 44.99

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820233144 Corsair Vengence 1600mhz ram 40.99

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822136697 500gb WD Caviar black harddrive 99.99
-extremely fast mechanical based harddrive

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827118031 Dirt cheap CD/DVD rom drive 18.99

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814127666 MSI 6670 GPU 69.99


Total $494.92

I would say this is decent, if I didn't hate amd and ati(cheapo). That psu is terrible(atleast it's a corsair I guess),micro boards blow. But for 500 bucks I guess you can't complain. In my honest opinion though, if I where you, I would just save another 200- 300 bucks. And buy a better msi 1155 board, a 560 and a i5. Also never cheap out on a PSU, cheaping out on your psu could mean you just fried your 500 bucks worth of pc.

Edited by lsp, 03 November 2012 - 07:07 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

lsp, on 03 November 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

I would say this is decent, if I didn't hate amd and ati(cheapo). That psu is terrible(atleast it's a corsair I guess),micro boards blow. But for 500 bucks I guess you can't complain. In my honest opinion though, if I where you, I would just save another 200- 300 bucks. And buy a better msi 1155 board, a 560 and a i5. Also never cheap out on a PSU, cheaping out on your psu could mean you just fried your 500 bucks worth of pc.

May I ask why you hate AMD and ATI? AMD more or less owns the budget segment for CPUs, and competes with the Intel i5s and i7s with the FX-83xx line (while remaining at the price of an i5, they have single thread performance of a lower end i5 and maintain overclockability, And in mulit-thread they compete with high end i7s) , while on ethical grounds they have a far better standing than Intel if that matters to you, and over the years AMD has innovated many more times than Intel. AMD vs Nvidia on the other hand AMD has faster single GPU cards than Nvidia across the board from budget on up and have few to no driver problems in single GPU configurations.

Micro ATX boards are fine these days, though ATX is generally still better given you have more upgradability for future use, though it is not necessary. Brand wise, MSI, Asus, Gigabyte, and AsRock are all fine, though I have a preference for the latter three brands, and AsRock generally gives the best price / performance for a motherboard, though Gigabyte is well competitive here as well.

As for a PSU, no you should never cheap out on a PSU, however you should also not overspend. Within a budget, a corsair CX430 is fine. CWT internals are alright, and they're backed by Corsair's quality insurance and warranty. Power consumption of any of these systems won't use 300 watts in regular occurrences so there is enough headroom, albeit not as much as I would like, though the budget constrains what can be done to help that.

[Lumunix]

Catamount, on 03 November 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Actually the OP would probably stress a 750W PSU with the build recommended more than 430W PSU. PSUs tend to run very, very inefficiency at very low power draws, and an AMD A10 and 6670 (66WTDP) probably wouldn't draw more than 150W in actual gaming on a bad day (and most of the time, probably wouldn't draw more than 125W), or 16-20% power draw on a 750W PSU. The unit would run inefficiently and it would run hotter. It's also an unnecessary additional expense on a clearly limited budget, where the money could go towards other things instead to yield an actual benefit. For instance, the price difference between a CX430 and a decent 750W PSU, if not spent on the PSU, would be enough to upgrade a 6670 to a 7750.

In any case though, I'd say just go with Vulpes' build, OP.

There is a clear reason why I chose the 6670 for that build and thats because the A10 chip is an APU with graphics built directly onto the chip, the 6670 is needed to crossfire that onboard gpu with the dedicated gpu and the 6670 is the highest end dedicated gpu that you can do this hybrid crossfire with. In the end you get better performance without an increase in costs.

Also where are you seeing a QUALITY 750w psu at that price range?, not to mention whatever happened to buying what you actually need and not overkilling everything and driving up costs. Also the 7770 is close to double the cost and changing the powersupply will not net you a grand total of $80+ dollars in savings.

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814131460

this was the cheapest 7770 I could find. For the price of $500 I Min/Maxed the performance with the new trinity apus. The OP wanted a budget build and I came up with a very viable one. You can says that Vulpes came up with a $600 dollar build (which is good by the way) but its not what the OP wanted because by that logic I would recommend my $2800 super build. In short I followed the OP to the letter of what he/she wanted.

[Vulpesveritas]

YellowDragon, on 03 November 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

this was the cheapest 7770 I could find. For the price of $500 I Min/Maxed the performance with the new trinity apus. The OP wanted a budget build and I came up with a very viable one. You can says that Vulpes came up with a $600 dollar build (which is good by the way) but its not what the OP wanted because by that logic I would recommend my $2800 super build. In short I followed the OP to the letter of what he/she wanted.

The OP has an OS already so my build comes out to $500 given that was pulled from my $600 BOTW which includes a $100 OS. $600 build - $100 OS = $500 build Hence I am fairly sure my recommendation is sound.

Now given the OP is saying he has a PSU lying around, were he not getting a new PSU then I would recommend keeping the build as is but upgrading the GPU to a Radeon HD 7850.

[Gremlich Johns]

I recommend an SSD or a 250GB HDD for your programs and OS, leaving the larger drive for storage only. I use 3 2TB drives for storage (photography and video) and a 128GB SSD for programs (with a 250GB drive for the system image).

[Catamount]

YellowDragon, on 03 November 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

There is a clear reason why I chose the 6670 for that build and thats because the A10 chip is an APU with graphics built directly onto the chip, the 6670 is needed to crossfire that onboard gpu with the dedicated gpu and the 6670 is the highest end dedicated gpu that you can do this hybrid crossfire with.

Hybrid Crossfire has long been quirky in the best of times. Often it gives no performance increase at all vs just using the dedicated GPU alone, and sometimes it even hurts performance. That's not even figuring in what must be atrocious microstutter for such an odd system.

I agree that it's a good idea, but I think it needs work before I'd ever recommend it. It's just too hit or miss.

Quote

Also where are you seeing a QUALITY 750w psu at that price range?, not to mention whatever happened to buying what you actually need and not overkilling everything and driving up costs.

Are you sure you're responding to the right person?

I was arguing against buying a 750W PSU. The cheapest decent 750W PSUs would be the CX750, or the Cougar A760, and they're both above $90. The cheapest passable 750W PSU is probably the Rosewill RX750-S-B (I own one, decent unit as of 5 years ago) and it's outdated and still $90.

A Corsair CX430 is $45, hence, it'd be about a $50 premium, which would be enough money for a GPU upgrade, including an upgrade to a Radeon HD 7750, which is $90-$100. But since your build didn't leave room to do either, I think I'll just stick with "go with Vulpes' build".