71 replies to this topic

[OpCentar]

Corbon Zackery, on 04 November 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

The A1 streak cat is pretty easy to deal with it has 2 arms with all of the weapons in them so blow them off there defenceless pretty easy to hit since there sqaure boxes on each side of the mech.

Um yeah, but you see the problem is accurate fire when your cockpit is shaking so bad the game engine decides to dim the screen for you (that damn lighting bug) in anticipation of the inevitable


I tried, 3x LPL due to lag and ~30kph top speed difference I managed to take one of his pods to red before I died.

Sarevos, on 04 November 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

its no permastun your reticule doesnt move just your vision so aim when you can and pull the trigger

Very difficult, I always lost in my K2 with LL or LPL or C1 4xML+2xLRM15.

The rocking effect should be toned down a notch.

[Lefty Lucy]

Mr 144, on 04 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Ahem...A stock 4SP can one-shot an ear. 2xSRM6+4xML = 50 alpha damage at point blank range. A Cat's arm is 40 armor, with internals at 20, so you are relying on some SRM crits for a one shot, which in my experience happens reliably enough. Range...Pshaa...Ambush inside of its range...charge to point blank...De-ear in one alpha...A lighter, slower, smaller mech.

Mr 144

Sure, but that also requires you to be at about 75 meters to get all the SRMs to hit, and you're generating so much more heat than the streak cat that you can't really try it twice.

[Lykaon]

Essentially the brilliant counter to Streakcats is let them blow your arms off before they core you when you are armless?....provided they are kind enough to not always airial bomb you for constant CT hits.

It's cheaper to just get cored and not cored and dearmed.

Here is the truth.

If you can not move at a ground speed in excess of 100kph
you do not have at least 15 tons of armor
you are not also a streakcat and a better pilot
you do not have a coordinated team to focus fire before it kills you

You are boned!

Edited by Lykaon, 04 November 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[Rollio]

Mr 144, on 04 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Ahem...A stock 4SP can one-shot an ear. 2xSRM6+4xML = 50 alpha damage at point blank range. A Cat's arm is 40 armor, with internals at 20, so you are relying on some SRM crits for a one shot, which in my experience happens reliably enough. Range...Pshaa...Ambush inside of its range...charge to point blank...De-ear in one alpha...A lighter, slower, smaller mech.

Mr 144

This is just flat wrong. Ever since SRM nerf you won't be able to place anywhere near the max damage on one component if you can hit anything at all with them. You *won't* be able to hit a catapult piloted correctly that is moving at full speed (there's no reason SSRM cat should EVER slow down). A hunchback will be long dead to a correctly piloted SSRM catapult before it can do anything serious to fight back

[stjobe]

Lykaon, on 04 November 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Here is the truth.

If you can not move at a ground speed in excess of 100kph
you do not have at least 15 tons of armor
you are not also a streakcat and a better pilot
you do not have a coordinated team to focus fire before it kills you

You are boned!

Bull. Use longer-ranged weapons, take it out before it gets to 270.
Or hit it while it's engaging something else.
If you let me get behind it in my Commando I promise I'll kill it, no matter which load-out I use.

You can't stand in front of it and let it shoot at you, but then again how many 'mechs can you do that with?

[Mr 144]

Lefty Lucy, on 04 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

Sure, but that also requires you to be at about 75 meters to get all the SRMs to hit, and you're generating so much more heat than the streak cat that you can't really try it twice.

Well, I use the term 'Alpha' loosely...usually it's 2xML...2xML...2xSRM6...using the ML's while closing, and the SRMs to finish the ear at point blank...This leaves me enough heat to true "alpha" the other ear if needed, but they usually run like little girls once they've lost the first...I don't chase them. Also why I mentioned 'ambushing' to get to point blank. I've found most streak pilots are so over-focused on maintaining that lock, they loose situational awareness rather easily.

Besides, you know me Lefty...Banzai !!!!

Rollio, on 04 November 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

This is just flat wrong. Ever since SRM nerf you won't be able to place anywhere near the max damage on one component if you can hit anything at all with them. You *won't* be able to hit a catapult piloted correctly that is moving at full speed (there's no reason SSRM cat should EVER slow down). A hunchback will be long dead to a correctly piloted SSRM catapult before it can do anything serious to fight back

Obviously completely missed the POINT BLANK portion of my comment. I do this ALL THE TIME!. There is no reason why a brawling 4SP cannot keep up with a StreakCAT... I just don't understand the fear of them...THAT is there main weapon as far as I can tell...fear.

Mr 144

Edited by Mr 144, 04 November 2012 - 04:38 PM.

[Sarevos]

Rollio, on 04 November 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

This is just flat wrong. Ever since SRM nerf you won't be able to place anywhere near the max damage on one component if you can hit anything at all with them. You *won't* be able to hit a catapult piloted correctly that is moving at full speed (there's no reason SSRM cat should EVER slow down). A hunchback will be long dead to a correctly piloted SSRM catapult before it can do anything serious to fight back

HBs can hit 84 kph and streak cats only deal 30 dmg and not all to the same place if you charge and sweep him he also has to know youre there and lock on to you if he loses sight of you then theres time for the missile lock and him making sure his path is clear and not running into anything its not cut and dry a hunchback pressing the attack will gravely wound an ambushed cat if not kill if we talk about skill levels if theyre both equally skilled the streak cat is at a disadvantage since he cant make use of his ability to aim its whereever the streaks go

[Lefty Lucy]

Sarevos, on 04 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

HBs can hit 84 kph and streak cats only deal 30 dmg and not all to the same place if you charge and sweep him he also has to know youre there and lock on to you if he loses sight of you then theres time for the missile lock and him making sure his path is clear and not running into anything its not cut and dry a hunchback pressing the attack will gravely wound an ambushed cat if not kill if we talk about skill levels if theyre both equally skilled the streak cat is at a disadvantage since he cant make use of his ability to aim its whereever the streaks go

But an 84 KPH SP with 4 ML and 2 SRM6 is not going to have nearly sufficient heat dissipation, even with DHS and/or endo.

[Sarevos]

Mr 144, on 04 November 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Well, I use the term 'Alpha' loosely...usually it's 2xML...2xML...2xSRM6...using the ML's while closing, and the SRMs to finish the ear at point blank...This leaves me enough heat to true "alpha" the other ear if needed, but they usually run like little girls once they've lost the first...I don't chase them. Also why I mentioned 'ambushing' to get to point blank. I've found most streak pilots are so over-focused on maintaining that lock, they loose situational awareness rather easily.

Besides, you know me Lefty...Banzai !!!!



Obviously completely missed the POINT BLANK portion of my comment. I do this ALL THE TIME!. There is no reason why a brawling 4SP cannot keep up with a StreakCAT... I just don't understand the fear of them...THAT is there main weapon as far as I can tell...fear.

Mr 144

Thats precisely correct even I tend to get tunnel vision when some one damages my expensive machine (lol i have 100+k repair bills if i die)

Lefty Lucy, on 04 November 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

But an 84 KPH SP with 4 ML and 2 SRM6 is not going to have nearly sufficient heat dissipation, even with DHS and/or endo.

you see but he only needs the first alpha then he just hugs and spins the cat till he has another shot even jump jet 180s dont help when you have to keep the circle over the ******* for the duration of the lock i use the things and agree they shouldnt always hit ct but they are not so easy to use on skilled pilots you have to work for your money =P

YES THEY ARE FACE ROLL but im saying his tactic is very annoyingly effective

Edited by Sarevos, 04 November 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[NovaFury]

Streaks can target manual shutdowns now, by the way. Something about how streak cats couldn't effectively stop cappers who reached their base and just shut down. I thought it was a myth at first, because everyone mentions you can't lock manual shutdowns.

Then I set up a cold start trap and got snuck up on by a streak cat from the opposite direction and he had no trouble firing on me before I could start back up.

[Mr 144]

Lefty Lucy, on 04 November 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

But an 84 KPH SP with 4 ML and 2 SRM6 is not going to have nearly sufficient heat dissipation, even with DHS and/or endo.

Depends if you're built for DPS, or Burst. I know you like that pew pew on yours, and I like that Bam! on mine Realitically, it's 81kph without speed tweaks, as going past 250 is a waste of tonnage IMO. I KNOW I'll be in the far minority here, but I only really need 17HS minimum to make it all work. Yes, I run endo and ES, and some builds even an XL. If I can tweak 20 heat dissipation out of it I'm golden. It just means choosing your shots wisely. The pew pew style of the SL version is addicting, but I like the more reserved big punch style better.

Mr 144

[Sarevos]

NovaFury, on 04 November 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Streaks can target manual shutdowns now, by the way. Something about how streak cats couldn't effectively stop cappers who reached their base and just shut down. I thought it was a myth at first, because everyone mentions you can't lock manual shutdowns.

Then I set up a cold start trap and got snuck up on by a streak cat from the opposite direction and he had no trouble firing on me before I could start back up.

yea i got that a few times in my commando i shut down and he just S*** all over my poor mech post a ticket

Mr 144, on 04 November 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Depends if you're built for DPS, or Burst. I know you like that pew pew on yours, and I like that Bam! on mine Realitically, it's 81kph without speed tweaks, as going past 250 is a waste of tonnage IMO. I KNOW I'll be in the far minority here, but I only really need 17HS minimum to make it all work. Yes, I run endo and ES, and some builds even an XL. If I can tweak 20 heat dissipation out of it I'm golden. It just means choosing your shots wisely. The pew pew style of the SL version is addicting, but I like the more reserved big punch style better.

Mr 144

no youre right that max speed is not always BEST speed for tonnage constraints. Also bursting is the hunchbacks strong point you jump in and cripple then finish him off with sustainable dps

[shintakie]

Question! What are the current trail mechs to do when they come up against a streak cat? All of them have long range weapons, yay. Now the streak cat has closed the distance with only minor damage and can outdamage you, out maneuver you, and outrun you.

You have anywhere from 10-15 seconds before you're cored. Go.

Sarevos, on 04 November 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

yea i got that a few times in my commando i shut down and he just S*** all over my poor mech post a ticket

The fact that a SSRM couldnt lock on when you had clear los was a bug. That is what should have been reported, not the fact that you cant abuse mechanics that aren't workin properly anymore.

Edited by shintakie, 04 November 2012 - 05:18 PM.

[Mr 144]

shintakie, on 04 November 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Question! What are the current trail mechs to do when they come up against a streak cat? All of them have long range weapons, yay. Now the streak cat has closed the distance with only minor damage and can outdamage you, out maneuver you, and outrun you.

You have anywhere from 10-15 seconds before you're cored. Go.



The fact that a SSRM couldnt lock on when you had clear los was a bug. That is what should have been reported, not the fact that you cant abuse mechanics that aren't workin properly anymore.

I made my living on the AWS trial 2xLL salvo = 18 damage...LRMs soften and crit...not a real big threat unless he gets close unmolested...ensure that doesn't happen. Same strategy as always...Range them...De-Ear them...Burst Brawl them...Your choice. Trial Mechs fall into the category of "possible" not necessarily "likely". Most builds can dispatch trial mechs, so not really a primary issue concerning balance IMO.

Mr 144

[shintakie]

Mr 144, on 04 November 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

I made my living on the AWS trial 2xLL salvo = 18 damage...LRMs soften and crit...not a real big threat unless he gets close unmolested...ensure that doesn't happen. Same strategy as always...Range them...De-Ear them...Burst Brawl them...Your choice. Trial Mechs fall into the category of "possible" not necessarily "likely". Most builds can dispatch trial mechs, so not really a primary issue concerning balance IMO.

Mr 144

Well yeah, if you both start from opposite sides of a long flat valley the trials would all do amazin against a streak cat. You can keep distance simply by backin up, you can hit them well outside of even their max range, and by the time they close you can finish them off. Unfortunately that doesn't really happen a whole lot. If you're in a trial and you come up against a streak cat that has you within its sights the only possible way you are gettin out of that situation alive is if a teammate bails you out.

I get this will be mostly a nonissue once the nerf goes into play, but mostly I'm just tired of people who forget the newer guys in these conversations. Your post is an excellent example. If you're really good or the opposin pilot is really bad (not sure how its possible to be really bad or even really good in a streak cat, but I'll put it anyway) you have a fightin chance against cheese builds like this. If you're not really good and you're facin an opponent who is even remotely competent, you have basically lost as soon as you hit that launch button.

[Mr 144]

shintakie, on 04 November 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

...snip...

Ouch ;( I think you got the wrong guy when it comes to new player concerns. I clarified it as possible but not likely too. For a skilled pilot with awerness, it's do-able...for a new player it's not likely. I don't quite know how I implied I'm uber-awesome-sauce. You don't have to really good to at least soften a target with LRMs, but you do need the practice in aiming LL's for the entire beam duration. I also said my opinion on trial mechs were that they were already bad against many builds, so balancing a specific weapon against them would be moot....wait, come to think of it, did you even read my post?

Mr 144

[197mmCannon]

Allekatrase, on 04 November 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Yes, there is definitely a difference though I don't know why. If you power down for overheating are you not powered down? It doesn't make sense currently. If you argue that you're still hot that makes no sense because you can override the heat shutdown and manually power down and they'll lose lock. You're still hot but now you can't be targeted. But this is all off topic.

SSRMs need to spread damage and not all go for CT. If that changes they'll be fine.

They will be more than fine, they will be useless.

[Sarevos]

Daemian, on 04 November 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

They will be more than fine, they will be useless.

no they wont be @_@ theyre scout swatters not certain death missiles they will work as intended


while I dont agree with lefty lucy on some things SSRMS are indeed imbalanced they go straight for the CT everytime while a skilled player can give you a run for your money a not-so-skilled player or someone in a trial mech is pretty hosed with me simply having to remain conscious. i'm inclined to agree that the skill-skill requirement is imbalanced arent you? now you talk a big game but anyone using a streak cat with any modicum of skill can easily spread damage since he only has to sweep over you once to maintain lock and can keep twisting back and forth until its time to fire (what i do when someone gets to close to my support cat) I do agree that Lefty should consider the other options until ssrms are fixed but you went out of your way to be boorish and that I dont approve of...

Edited by Niko Snow, 05 November 2012 - 04:36 AM.
Quote/Context

[shintakie]

Mr 144, on 04 November 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Ouch ;( I think you got the wrong guy when it comes to new player concerns. I clarified it as possible but not likely too. For a skilled pilot with awerness, it's do-able...for a new player it's not likely. I don't quite know how I implied I'm uber-awesome-sauce. You don't have to really good to at least soften a target with LRMs, but you do need the practice in aiming LL's for the entire beam duration. I also said my opinion on trial mechs were that they were already bad against many builds, so balancing a specific weapon against them would be moot....wait, come to think of it, did you even read my post?

Mr 144

Huh? Oh, no I never thought you implied you were uber-awesome-sauce at all. Really, about the only reason I quoted you was because you responded to me and I, rudely I'll admit, made a counterpoint. An...unnecessary counterpoint considerin you yourself admitted it was pretty skewed against trials.

I'll just apologize for that right now. Sorry.

However, to your point that balancin specific weapons against trials would be moot, I kinda disagree. To me it does seem like a problem if a specific weapon groupin can completely dominate an opponent the way a streakcat can dominate the current trial mechs. Stuff like this directly ties into new player retention. Havin a weapon that hard counters the only 4 mechs a new player can ride in seems like it should be an issue.

[Sarevos]

Mr 144, on 04 November 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

My what a cute little troll you are...While I happen to disagree with Lefty on this point, I would not dream of questioning his skill or experience. Me thinks there is a noob here...but it certainly ain't Lefty...lol

Mr 144

Edit: Unless of course I failed a sarcasm check

lol oh you, how awesome you are XD