53 replies to this topic

[Gigaton]

MagnusEffect, on 13 April 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Trading the AC/20 for a PPC...

You can't trade ballistic weapon for energy weapon in MW:O.

[ENDMYSUFFERING]

Motionless, on 12 April 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

When are they going to invent SRM8?

Heck with the 8's, what about SRM40's?

[BerryChunks]

Thomas Hogarth, on 13 April 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

I'm guessing we won't see a SRM system with efficiencies higher than the SRM-6. It's already fairly easy to boat them - you don't see it too often in MW due to the unguided nature of SRMs, but it's quite common on tabletop.

/facepalm.


SRMs are guided. Their guidance is not on par to LRMs because they sacrificed electronics within the warhead for more punch. They are still guided.

Otherwise 0 of 2 missiles would hit just from someone walking sideways after you fire.

What happens is, Streaks ensure ALL missiles in their tubes are locked onto the target before firing. Thats how they all hit. they differ from SRM in that they ensure all missiles lock before firing. That in itself says regular SRMS do lock onto targets.

People keep coming up with the idea that SRMs are unguided, but then why are they not called rockets?

Edited by BerryChunks, 13 April 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[William Petersen]

Voidreaver, on 13 April 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

<analysis>

One thing you forgot to mention is Ammo/ton.

SRM 2 ammo is 50 volleys/ton = 100 missiles/ton
SRM 4 ammo is 25 volleys/ton = 100 missiles/ton
SRM 6 ammo is 15 volleys/ton = 90 missiles/ton.

I'd rather take an array of (S)SRM-4s than of 6s. I'll deal with the slight heat increase for slightly higher ammo efficiency.

MagnusEffect, on 13 April 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

However, while a battery of SSRM2s will run 50% hotter than SSRM6s for the same weight, it is still FAR more "efficient" than many other options, especially an AC/20 (that's an IS AC/20 btw ):

x5 SSRM2s = 20 damage, 10 heat, 7.5 tons
x1 AC20 = 20 damage, 7 heat, 14 tons!

CONCLUSION:

The bank of SSRMs take up less space as well as tonnage and still save ample weight to pack on extra heatsinks, ammo, and weapons. You are of course trading direct impact damage for more spread damage, but you gain general DPS efficiency and it looks like MWO is already getting away from previous pinpoint laser accuracy of previous titles (a good thing).

Yeah, but the SSRMs will splatter that damage over the whole Mech, the AC/20 socks it all in one section, which pretty much spells 'doom' for anything light and 'holy crap that hurt' for anything medium.

[MagnusEffect]

Gigaton, on 13 April 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

You can't trade ballistic weapon for energy weapon in MW:O.

There are Centurion models with both Laser or ACs mounted in the arm... don't believe me... look it up

And I'm talking OLD models too.

Quote

Yeah, but the SSRMs will splatter that damage over the whole Mech, the AC/20 socks it all in one section, which pretty much spells 'doom' for anything light and 'holy crap that hurt' for anything medium.

Yeah, I know.. I was still adding to the post

I'm not saying that SSRMs are BETTER than the AC20. Only more efficient DPS... which is true. The best choice is to use both together. Use the AC/20 to punch a hole into internal structure and then follow with the splash damage of SRMs to increase the likelihood of causing critical damage (a VERY effective tactic in TT). I realize we still don't know how the game mechanics are going to play out, but I'm trusting the devs are aware of all this I have already said and will be seeking a way to make SRMs viable.

I found it very disappointing how many weapons were completely ignored in MW4 in favor of a boat full of large lasers or LRMs.

Edited by MagnusEffect, 13 April 2012 - 08:01 PM.

[Kanil]

I don't think anyone's mentioned that 3 Streak-2s gives you 2 more chances to hit than a single Streak-6. While probably more useful in a TT setting than a FPS, it's definitely worth noting.

Of course, you also get 2 more chances to miss.

[Shai tan]

For the record, I am not much of a Streaker. I am fully armored when I run. ;p

[FinnMcKool]

Put your cloths on.

[MagnusEffect]

Something else that has been bothering me with past games is this whole concept of "rock/knockback".

It has always annoyed me how a single AC/20 can do it so effectively, but 80 missiles raining down on you doesn't? That is stupid. 80 missiles.. even one salvo, should be terrifying.

Or that lasers cause any knockback at all... it's a FREAKING OVERPOWERED FLASHLIGHT! THERE IS NO KINETIC FORCE!

Thank you devs for getting lasers right... finally. Only took us how many games?

Edited by MagnusEffect, 13 April 2012 - 08:15 PM.

[Orzorn]

I wonder how they will handle streaks in MWO.

In the lore, Streaks are said to only be able to fire when a lock is achieved:

Quote

The Star League development of the Streak SRM missile system was
a significant enhancement of existent missile launcher technology,
incorporating a kind of “smart override” feature in the targeting and fi r-
ing mechanisms. Developed as a means of conserving ammunition, the
Streak system literally refuses to fi re unless all of the launcher’s tubes
simultaneously achieve a “hard lock” on their target. While this approach
guarantees a hit when the weapon fi res, some have seen the system’s
requirement for using only its own missile types (rather than any of the
specialty munitions now available) as a hindrance. Combined with the
Streak’s increased cost—to say nothing of the unnerving risk that it may
override a shot at the critical moment it is needed—this has kept the
Streak system from completely replacing standard SRMs in the arsenals
of Inner Sphere militaries. Even today, standard SRM launch technology
continues to outnumber Streak systems in the product lines of companies
across the Sphere by almost two to one.

In past Mechwarrior games, streaks did not have this restriction, meaning you could still dumb fire them.

I think it should definitely be included. Making weapons different is part of balancing them out so you don't ALWAYS have a single best weapon in any given weapon type. Same reason PPCs should have minimum ranges (so they won't beat out Autocannons).

[Gigaton]

MagnusEffect, on 13 April 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

There are Centurion models with both Laser or ACs mounted in the arm... don't believe me... look it up

And I'm talking OLD models too.

Erm... yes? You still can't switch ballistic weapon for energy weapon in MW:O. You can buy CN9-AL if it's available and switch the LL and SL for PPC though (but not for autocannon).

BerryChunks, on 13 April 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

People keep coming up with the idea that SRMs are unguided, but then why are they not called rockets?

Curiously enough, MRMs are actually unguided. Dispite being missiles and all (you can't pair them with Artemis IV either, unlike with LRM/SRM).

Edited by Gigaton, 13 April 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[MagnusEffect]

Gigaton, on 13 April 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Erm... yes? You still can't switch ballistic weapon for energy weapon in MW:O. You can buy CN9-AL if it's available and switch the LL and SL for PPC though (but not for autocannon).

And that is exactly what I was implying. I didn't think it was necessary to spell it out for you

Edited by MagnusEffect, 13 April 2012 - 08:39 PM.

[William Petersen]

Orzorn, on 13 April 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I wonder how they will handle streaks in MWO.

In the lore, Streaks are said to only be able to fire when a lock is achieved:


In past Mechwarrior games, streaks did not have this restriction, meaning you could still dumb fire them.

I think it should definitely be included. Making weapons different is part of balancing them out so you don't ALWAYS have a single best weapon in any given weapon type. Same reason PPCs should have minimum ranges (so they won't beat out Autocannons).

These thoughts, it's like they came from my very own mind!

[Dihm]

BerryChunks, on 13 April 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

/facepalm.


SRMs are guided. Their guidance is not on par to LRMs because they sacrificed electronics within the warhead for more punch. They are still guided.

Otherwise 0 of 2 missiles would hit just from someone walking sideways after you fire.

What happens is, Streaks ensure ALL missiles in their tubes are locked onto the target before firing. Thats how they all hit. they differ from SRM in that they ensure all missiles lock before firing. That in itself says regular SRMS do lock onto targets.

People keep coming up with the idea that SRMs are unguided, but then why are they not called rockets?

Thank you Berry, you saved me from pointing that out.

MWO better not use the MW4 style "SRMs." UGH.

[Corbon Zackery]

The streak system in out of game context is a great weapon who wouldn't want a weapon that does not fire if it does not have a clean lock.

In game its a ammo explosion waiting to happen beacause every time it does not fire thats one more point of ammo dmg from a blow through.

Its sound and cost effective but with 50, 25, 15 ammo for a battle your going to be fine its not until operation Bulldog that Streak SRM system comes into play since a commando lance team might not get the supplys it needs until latter on so it needs to make every shot count.

But in a online combat enviroment a SRM will do the job just fine if the battle is not over after 15 shots with a SRM 6 then you have issues.

It sounds strange but you want to depleate ammo during mech combat as long as you have ammo you can have a ammo blow. Case fits LT, RT, CT if you have a XL thats 3 hits to the motor anyway you play it.

[BerryChunks]

are you sayin CASE should weigh tonnage to balance out the XL engine?

[EDMW CSN]

Streaks only fire on a guaranteed hit, so there must be a pro and con.

Pro = you don't waste shots and don't generate heat when not fire.
Con = ammo explosion waiting to happen, can't use specialist ammo.

Oh well you can't have everything anyway.

If the Streak launcher locks are pretty dang fast, excessive ammo stored should not be an issue anyway. .

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 16 April 2012 - 07:25 AM.

[Tritarian]

IS case system does take tonnage, 1/2 ton and one crit space per location it protects.

[Ian MacLeary]

BerryChunks, on 16 April 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

are you sayin CASE should weigh tonnage to balance out the XL engine?

Inner Sphere CASE weighs .5 tons per location on which it is mounted. Clans get integral CASE which is accounted for in the weight of their armor/internal structure.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

MagnusEffect, on 13 April 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Or that lasers cause any knockback at all... it's a FREAKING OVERPOWERED FLASHLIGHT! THERE IS NO KINETIC FORCE!

Thank you devs for getting lasers right... finally. Only took us how many games?

Really, if a laser is powerful enough to evaporate half a ton of armour (eg Large Laser) when it hits is powerful enough to cause some knockback.