28 replies to this topic

[Howlin Wolf]

Gun Bear, on 13 April 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

I don't think World of Tanks logic can be applied to Mechwarrior so easily. It should take 2-3 minutes for two good pilots in similar 'Mechs to duel, if not longer. That is a straight up 1 on 1 duel though, it almost never happens because someone else will jump in on either side of the fight eventually.

This is supposed to be a team based game. So 1vs1 shouldnt be a fact of life unless someone is just wanting to die fast.

[warner2]

Gigaton, on 13 April 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

Yeah I know. The games sometimes feel really long so it's surprising how short they really are ultimately. Just checked mine, it's 3 mins 46 secs. You can check yours too here: http://wot-dossier.appspot.com/

That's the average length of the 'life' of an individual pilot presumably, which isn't the average length of the overall match. The second would be greater than the first.

I think on the OP generally that a good upper time limit on a 12 v 12 death match is 30 minutes, perhaps more, certainly no less. It's there to cover camping scenarios, where one team is avoiding a fight, or scenarios where there is one guy left who runs away or hides, so I think you need a time limit on straight 12 v 12 death match (not necessarily other game types).

Once the actual fight starts, it's not likely to last particularly long, perhaps 10 minutes, until as I say you get to the point where one side disengages and then tries to avoid the fight.

I think there are some who think that matches should be long drawn out slug fests as the mechs pound on each other, but I think they get that idea from the novels. If you actually balanced it that way, where a mech could take shot after shot after shot, it would devolve into a bunch of mechs at point blank range firing shots at each other.

[Gigaton]

warner__, on 14 April 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

That's the average length of the 'life' of an individual pilot presumably, which isn't the average length of the overall match. The second would be greater than the first.

True enough, as I said I'm quite too agressive in WoT. Most players will hang along bit longer, and the ultimate duration of the match will be set by the stragglers that remain after main force has been destoryed (mainly, artillery). Worth also noting that WoT has base capture as defeat condition, win by capture tends to be quicker than by destruction of the enemy.

However, bit under 4 mins of agressive play on average is still enough for a decent player to influence the flow of battle more than most of the playerbase does. I think the amount of time in which the battle is decided is more important than how long it takes for the winning side to hunt down the remnants. I just don't see this time going much over 10 mins avg. for team deathmatch in MW:O, unless we get really huge maps or unless firepower of 'mechs is decreased or armour increased by a whole lot.

Edited by Gigaton, 14 April 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[Trog16]

I definitively think there should be at least 2 ways to win every match. One being a timer, the other an objective. Maybe that objective is 'total annihilation' but even then at some point the enemy should just start to show up on the map and be unable to hide. (Just an idea to keep that Jenner from running from corner to corner with a single Atlas trying to chase)

Also reading all of these responses reminds me of a sig on the WoT forums. Paraphrased here "Most tactical errors in WoT are due to the small maps" It really is true, I think WoT major tactical failing is trying to take Tank battles and force fit them into 1km x1km map, makes lights really hard to use as they don't have the lateral movement to roam and spot without being in the cross hairs of most of the enemy.

Do we have an idea of the size of maps? I can make a separate topic on that as it really is a different issue, and also I have not forum searched that topic so if it is out there. I can look that up, or you could link it for the lazy OP

Thanks for all the discussion about this as I think it is fairly important. I do hope the game limits are dependent on game mode (Death Match, Capture and Control, etc) but I hope they aren't too long. I do like being able to get in a battle between classes or when I just want to be on for a 'quick' battle. I don't want each time I want to play have to be a long drawn out affair.

Sometimes I can only get away from RL for an hour or so and I would like to play a bit during that time, of course there might be a problem the Devs can't help hidden in that statement somewhere.

Trog

Can't wait to see you on the battle fields, and here is a preemptive apology to wargamming.net, but I will not be paying for WoT any more once this game comes out. Wonder how many Wot'ers are waiting for this game to migrate over, at least 1.

[HEMORRHAGE]

I think it's completely dependent on map size, the speed of the mechs relative to that map size, and so on. Now I haven't read up on what type of maps and gameplay styles there will be, but I'm assuming there will be secondary missions aside from killing the opponents, am I right? Therefore, depending on the mission type and the map size...time per match should have a direct correlation. Honestly, I think a 15 minute match is quite a while, that's only 4 matches an hour. I'd say limit it to maximum of 10 minutes to get 6 matches per hour. Otherwise you'd have to spend about 1/3 more time to make progress within the game, simply because of match time and not due to skill, etc.

[pcunite]

If we are going to have forced and unnatural time limits at least have them make sense ... like perhaps a volcano is about to spew or night is approaching and everything will freeze or a flood is coming. Keep the game real and mature please.

[Rejarial Galatan]

HEMORRHAGE, on 14 April 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Honestly, I think a 15 minute match is quite a while, that's only 4 matches an hour. I'd say limit it to maximum of 10 minutes to get 6 matches per hour. Otherwise you'd have to spend about 1/3 more time to make progress within the game, simply because of match time and not due to skill, etc.

Thing is Hemorrhage, sometimes it takes ALOT of skill for a team to completely halt the speed of a battle to a crawl. Jeebus knows that in the YEARS I spent on WoW I saw enough PvP there to see teams force my side <alliance> from a zerg rush into a full on turtle. It would get especially bad if the horde on my server had control of WG and shut us down in the central Courtyard by the blasted doors. Point is, in a game like this, there are BOUND to be more ways to up your XP level than just by killing other player mechs. I think if they wish to follow BT Canon then, we need 20+ minute matches. Strategy of scouts head out find the OPFOR report back, send in heavy/assaults, redirect them etc etc etc 10 min may not be enough if maps are large or complex.

[Anvil Dragon]

Time limits should be based on the contract. Some will prefer the 15 minute smash and grab or a position that has to be taken out at a set time to sync with other operations.

Others will prefer an open ended game, say searching for LosTech amid forests and hills and where neither team has very much for clues on a location (if you could see it from space or the air it would be found already). I could see teams each selecting a sector, they might not encounter anyone. Each side would have some intel on what areas were searched. The fun begins when something is found. One side will want to drop in a defence group and the other an assault group to take it from them. The recon groups best bug out.

So 10 minute, 20 minute, precisely at 2 PM, hour plus.. Should go with the contract type. Then you don't accept contracts that don't fit your style of piloting. I don't think they are trying for a one size fits all, but trying to keep it a bit more open ended.

[warner2]

HEMORRHAGE, on 14 April 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Honestly, I think a 15 minute match is quite a while, that's only 4 matches an hour. I'd say limit it to maximum of 10 minutes to get 6 matches per hour. Otherwise you'd have to spend about 1/3 more time to make progress within the game, simply because of match time and not due to skill, etc.

A 15 minute time limit is highly unlikely to happen. In a 12 v 12 on a large map (I'm making an assumption there will be larger maps), what do you think could be achieved in 15 minutes? It might take that long to find them (bearing in mind of course finding them isn't charging across the map making yourself highly visible looking for a fight, both teams generally would be trying to find them without being seen themselves).

This isn't putting 24 mechs into a small arena for them to slug it out. Well, I hope that isn't what this is