21 replies to this topic

[HaDeZs]

Don't know if this is just a lag to damage thing while moving extremely fast or not but lights are extremely tanky. I've given direct hits with dual gausses that barely scratch jenner and raven shields even when not moving, had a good amount of small laser battles as well with a ton of direct hits and they tear me to shreds. I remember a direct dual gauss hit anywhere on a jenner used to take it down to low structure, now it turns its armor yellow and a high yellow at that. My small laser boat hunchie used to be a light mech killer, I was always going back to protect the ranged and now I don't even bother because my DPS is better spent killing the bigger stuff.

It seems like unless they are caught with LRM's or Streaks they are pretty much unstoppable if fitted right and they do a very good amount of damage while doing so. Hell, even with LRM's and Streaks on them they can still take way more of a beating than a heavy with streaks. Not saying its all of them, I do see 1 or 2 out of 20 that go down quick.

4 well played and fitted lights are a game breaker most matches. Its something that should be looked at. Its definitely unbalancing the game now. 4 mediums/lights vs 1 jenner and the jenner usually kills 2 with yellow shields after a 2-3 min fight. They are supposed to be support/scout mechs with a good amount of firepower to be useful and not speed tanks with the firepower to take out an assault solo quicker than my heavy firepower atlas.

Anyways, I can only guess its a bug wth the last patch or two, and if it was a boost to lights to get more on the field then the game is unbalanced and needs to be fixed. I don't remember jenners being so tanky 3-4 patches ago. And because of that I am now going to fit some light mechs because if you can't beat them join them.

Edited by HaDeZs, 04 November 2012 - 10:39 PM.

[Mooman Viollt]

I just started this game a few days ago, and bought my first jenner a day ago. I noticed that the one I bought has nearly double the armor of the other two jenner models. Of course, that model's trade off is that it has only energy hardpoints (hence why the "all laser" model is harder to kill then the other two".

[Lyrik]

Well fast lights are hard to hit. And they have a lagshield. Which will sucks for AC and gauss.

Yesterday I had a game where an Trial Awesome and me (Founders Cat with 2LRM15 and 4 SPL) were figthing against 2 jenners in close combat. They killed both of us and we only managed to 1 kill one jenner and damage the other.

That seemed OK. 2 longrange missiles boat versus 2 fast , mobiles AND better armed (for close combat) lights will always be like that.

[TheMightyServo]

Quote

Yesterday I had a game where an Trial Awesome and me (Founders Cat with 2LRM15 and 4 SPL) were figthing against 2 jenners in close combat. They killed both of us and we only managed to 1 kill one jenner and damage the other.

That seemed OK. 2 longrange missiles boat versus 2 fast , mobiles AND better armed (for close combat) lights will always be like that.

That does not seem okay. The trial Awesome still mounts 2 LL, and your 4 SPLs shouldn't be a joke.

In addition to the lagshield, Jenners are also benefitting from terrain and turning not being implemented properly. In TT, as in real life, if you go up a hill, you lose speed because you're fighting the incline. When you turn, you're using your traction to affect a change in direction, and so you also lose speed. An Abrams can do 60 mph flat out, but it can't turn at 60 without skidding out of control. Bolt can do a flat out run at something like 30mph, but he can't zig-zag at the same pace. A 35-ton walking vehicle is not going to be able to move while turning and going uphill at the same 100 kph speed as it does on flat ground.

That's also an issue. Circle-strafe doesn't work in TT, as it wouldn't work IRL, because you can't maintain that kind of movement.

Game physics need to be adjusted to slow mechs on inclines, during turns, in water, etc. When that's done, lights will still be dangerous if a light driver can negotiate terrain. If not, he'll end up just like light drivers who run into walls currently - a sitting duck.

Collision needs to be put back in (which devs are working on, from what the forums say). I'd love to see physical attacks, but just charges and collisions would be nice for now. A light who isn't afraid to run into or through an Awesome and a Catapult because there's no damage incurred is just what showcases the imbalance.

Lights are disproportionately benefiting from fixes that need to be applied to every mech's physics right now.

Edited by TheMightyServo, 05 November 2012 - 12:13 AM.

[Sulf]

I'm surprised more people haven't jumped on this yet. Here you are.
http://mwomercs.com/...76#entry1344576

You're welcome.

[TheMightyServo]

Brickyard, on 05 November 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

I'm surprised more people haven't jumped on this yet. Here you are.
http://mwomercs.com/...76#entry1344576

You're welcome.

Read it earlier, agree with some, and I'd agree with more except for this:

Quote

At the moment, Lights are on par with Assaults and Heavies at close range. This isn't a bad thing. You should be able to fight any other mech and potentially win if you take the right tactics and you're a good enough shot.

Lights are lights. They are not on par with assault mechs. Assault mechs are made to be big and scary for a reason - because they are. There are roles to warfare, and the roles assigned to mechs in the BT universe do fit.

A light that can fight an assault can murder a medium or heavy without breaking a sweat, and that unbalances the game even worse. A centurion is barely faster than an atlas and can't maneuver that much faster, and ends up being lunch meat for a light with the existing exploits and flaws in the game that haven't been corrected, or are being reworked.

If I could find it written up somewhere, I'd even cite some of the 3025 text and the story of... Mercer Raviannon (sp?). Turning the BT geek up to 11 here, but basically it was in the old Wasp text (IIRC), where this guy had the idea that lights could just swarm heavies and assaults. Well, he tried using a battalion or more of lights on an assault/heavy company, and pretty much got his entire command destroyed.

Assaults are made to do massive damage; heavies do a lot of damage, and even mediums (especially heavy hitters like the Hunchback) really pack quite a punch. Lights are just that - light. Even ambush-hitters like the Javelin with 2 SRM6s aren't really going to do that much to something much heavier than they are.

[Sulf]

TheMightyServo, on 05 November 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Read it earlier, agree with some, and I'd agree with more except for this:



Lights are lights. They are not on par with assault mechs. Assault mechs are made to be big and scary for a reason - because they are. There are roles to warfare, and the roles assigned to mechs in the BT universe do fit.

A light that can fight an assault can murder a medium or heavy without breaking a sweat, and that unbalances the game even worse. A centurion is barely faster than an atlas and can't maneuver that much faster, and ends up being lunch meat for a light with the existing exploits and flaws in the game that haven't been corrected, or are being reworked.

If I could find it written up somewhere, I'd even cite some of the 3025 text and the story of... Mercer Raviannon (sp?). Turning the BT geek up to 11 here, but basically it was in the old Wasp text (IIRC), where this guy had the idea that lights could just swarm heavies and assaults. Well, he tried using a battalion or more of lights on an assault/heavy company, and pretty much got his entire command destroyed.

Assaults are made to do massive damage; heavies do a lot of damage, and even mediums (especially heavy hitters like the Hunchback) really pack quite a punch. Lights are just that - light. Even ambush-hitters like the Javelin with 2 SRM6s aren't really going to do that much to something much heavier than they are.

Firstly it's still a multiplayer game. Most important thing to remember.

Expect a trade off. The speed of a light mech will allow you to avoid shots and spread out damage over all your armor while pounded a small area, (back armor mostly) until it's taken down.

Secondly, I build my lights so that they can pack a punch at the cost of other systems. They're still too quick to catch but now have much more firepower.

If you can trip a light at any point it's likely dead. If you can lead a shot with a heavy ballisitics weapon, it will take massive damage. But that's down too skill as it should be. then of course we have weapons made for taking down lights such as SSRMs. If they made light mechs completely unable to go up against an assault in any situation then it would simply be unfair.

it's a game. Bottom line.

Edited by Brickyard, 05 November 2012 - 08:13 AM.

[Lerzpftz]

Hi. Lights (especially Jenners) will be nerfed (probably soon) by:

- Collisions comming back
- Hit boxes adjustments
- Less lag and better net code (it became this bad with the last patch, before you could hit them alot better)
- Jump Jets beeing repaired so you indeed need 3 or 5 of them and have 1-2 tons less weight for weapons / HS
- Small lasers producing more heat
- New players improving aim and learning to cover each other

I think that should be enough for now and will give people some air to breath.

HaDeZs, on 04 November 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

4 well played and fitted lights are a game breaker most matches. Its something that should be looked at. Its definitely unbalancing the game now. 4 mediums/lights vs 1 jenner and the jenner usually kills 2 with yellow shields after a 2-3 min fight.

If the enemy team has 4 lights, your team has them too. If you compare 2 commandos to 1 jenner and the jenner still wins, this might be because it costs much more. Don't blame the jenner for this, but matchmaking for setting up 3 jenners against 3 commandos or ravens. With the same argument you could call for a nerve to atlas since they (often) are more powerful than an awesome and still matched against them. And honestly, if 4 mediums/lights can't kill a single jenner, the pilots s.uck.

HaDeZs, on 04 November 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

They are supposed to be support/scout mechs with a good amount of firepower to be useful and not speed tanks with the firepower to take out an assault solo quicker than my heavy firepower atlas.

They are supposed to be worth their price tag. A fully upgraded jenner costs about 10 million cbills. It fights like a monster, true, but it should be able to do so for the price of an atlas. The 3 million standard jenner is not a very frightening opponent.

Edited by Lerzpftz, 05 November 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[Korobug]

TheMightyServo, on 05 November 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

That does not seem okay. The trial Awesome still mounts 2 LL, and your 4 SPLs shouldn't be a joke.

In addition to the lagshield, Jenners are also benefitting from terrain and turning not being implemented properly. In TT, as in real life, if you go up a hill, you lose speed because you're fighting the incline. When you turn, you're using your traction to affect a change in direction, and so you also lose speed. An Abrams can do 60 mph flat out, but it can't turn at 60 without skidding out of control. Bolt can do a flat out run at something like 30mph, but he can't zig-zag at the same pace. A 35-ton walking vehicle is not going to be able to move while turning and going uphill at the same 100 kph speed as it does on flat ground.

That's also an issue. Circle-strafe doesn't work in TT, as it wouldn't work IRL, because you can't maintain that kind of movement.

Game physics need to be adjusted to slow mechs on inclines, during turns, in water, etc. When that's done, lights will still be dangerous if a light driver can negotiate terrain. If not, he'll end up just like light drivers who run into walls currently - a sitting duck.

Collision needs to be put back in (which devs are working on, from what the forums say). I'd love to see physical attacks, but just charges and collisions would be nice for now. A light who isn't afraid to run into or through an Awesome and a Catapult because there's no damage incurred is just what showcases the imbalance.

Lights are disproportionately benefiting from fixes that need to be applied to every mech's physics right now.

I'm perfectly fine with the movement adjustments... provided you make us faster while we sprint downhill

Edited by Korobug, 05 November 2012 - 08:45 AM.

[HaDeZs]

They really do need to implement knockdown again. I miss the feature.

Lerzpftz, on 05 November 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

They are supposed to be worth their price tag. A fully upgraded jenner costs about 10 million cbills. It fights like a monster, true, but it should be able to do so for the price of an atlas. The 3 million standard jenner is not a very frightening opponent.

Your mentality on the issue is wrong. I can't speed fit my atlas to fight like a jenner and im paying for the cost of 2 fully fitted jenners for a fully upgraded atlas which is close to 20 mill. Jenners should be a joke for me if I pilot my atlas well, OR at the least I should be able to put a good dent and have a close match with that jenner but thats not true atm. Why are jenners able to have the option of the superior DPS of a bohemoth like an atlas while gaining super maneuverability speed and tankability while the atlas is still a big slow clunker that can't use its DPS against a jenner at all? Why can't any of the other med/heavy/assault mechs be fitted for speed like the lights? We are paying way more per than the jenner, we should have that option.

If it wasn't for the matchmaking system then im sure everyone would be running speed jenners in wolf packs like they used to in CB and ripping apart 8 man teams with just the 4 of them. For the survivability and low repair cost theres no reason to go bigger unless you want to hold true to team makup.

Like it or not, each mech has to fit into specific roles, regardless of what price you put on it otherwise the game becomes unbalanced. The meds fit their roles, the heavies although some balancing is needed with the dragon also fit in their respective roles, and the assaults also fit in their respective roles as beefy tanks. The money argument is BS quite franky.

Right now lights can take on any mech they want toe to toe, the only problem being streak weapons and even those are easily avoidable if your able to out turn the enemy. Thats fact. The only light not able to do so without a super long fight is a commando because of its limited weapons. My atlas can't do the same, and right now an atlas caught alone with a jenner is a dead atlas, it really has no chance. Same with cats, same with awesomes, centurions are dead easy, and hunchies are pretty much dead too although it can be close with some boat fits.

The issue isn't that lights have too much DPS although it should be lowered a bit, but that they are extremely hard to kill due to lag/bugs/ect. I am fully for the mech balance where every mech out there is able to do a fair amount of damage according to their role. But I do not think that lights should have the damage output of an assault or close. People are playing them like DPS boats and not using them to scout for lock ons for LRM support, running TAG or other support weapons, getting enemy locations, ect.

The more I think about it I think that MWO has failed a bit to balance out lights. Instead of giving them bonuses to exp/cash for doing role specifics they just improved DPS so they get their exp/cash bonuses through assists and kills.

Edited by HaDeZs, 05 November 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[HaDeZs]

Brickyard, on 05 November 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

If you can trip a light at any point it's likely dead. If you can lead a shot with a heavy ballisitics weapon, it will take massive damage. But that's down too skill as it should be. then of course we have weapons made for taking down lights such as SSRMs. If they made light mechs completely unable to go up against an assault in any situation then it would simply be unfair.

BTW the issue is that because of speed/lag/ect the lights are now super tanky. I've seen jenners take way more direct hits than is possible on any other mech, and i've given a free standing jenner 2x dual gauss volleys and only took the shield down to orange when mathematically I should have cored all the pieces hit. There is an issue with damage.

Yes, I fully agree with you 2 patches ago. Not this patch. I don't mind a DPS light mech, I'm all for it when I know I can take it down with the right weapons/tactics but I do mind when I do sufficient damage to kill it two times over and the armor is still yellow.

Edited by HaDeZs, 05 November 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[Sulf]

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

BTW the issue is that because of speed/lag/ect the lights are now super tanky. I've seen jenners take way more direct hits than is possible on any other mech, and i've given a free standing jenner 2x dual gauss volleys and only took the shield down to orange when mathematically I should have cored all the pieces hit. There is an issue with damage.

Yes, I fully agree with you 2 patches ago. Not this patch. I don't mind a DPS light mech, I'm all for it when I know I can take it down with the right weapons/tactics but I do mind when I do sufficient damage to kill it two times over and the armor is still yellow.

I wonder if that has anything to do with FF armor...

[Tamerathon]

Brickyard, on 05 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

I wonder if that has anything to do with FF armor...

That's a good question, actually. As I stated in my thread complaining about the Jenner needing hit with the Nerf bat, I hit a Jenner with a gauss rifle shot the other night, and only took it to yellow at best. Maybe the FF armor is providing too much of a benefit?

[Lerzpftz]

Funny you picked out 2 lines of my whole post, when i already wrote, that they will be nerfed by several things. When i've read that correctly, they are going to revert a part of netcode changes to the old system, which should help to reduce the lag shields and so on. Which is fine for me, even when i'm piloting one.

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

They really do need to implement knockdown again. I miss the feature.

Me too.

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Your mentality on the issue is wrong. I can't speed fit my atlas to fight like a jenner and im paying for the cost of 2 fully fitted jenners for a fully upgraded atlas which is close to 20 mill.

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Like it or not, each mech has to fit into specific roles, regardless of what price you put on it otherwise the game becomes unbalanced.

So it's lame that you can't speed fit your atlas, but each mech should have a specific role? Get used to beeing in a slow boat. ^^

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Why are jenners able to have the option of the superior DPS of a bohemoth like an atlas while gaining super maneuverability speed and tankability while the atlas is still a big slow clunker that can't use its DPS against a jenner at all? Why can't any of the other med/heavy/assault mechs be fitted for speed like the lights? We are paying way more per than the jenner, we should have that option.

First, please show me jenner doing half the DPS of a decent atlas build.
Second, please show me a mech heavier than a jenner, having less DPS.
Third, I've killed a lot of jenners with my hunchbacks during the last hours.
Fourth, i did the same with my dragon. No streaks involved there.

It is hard, but possible to compensate for their speed, if you can turn faster than
they circle and lead your lasers, even if that's stupid..

Your atlas is the one currently having most troubles. It's the slowest mech in game, remember? That said, they still have to balance and fix lag stuff.

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

The only light not able to do so without a super long fight is a commando because of its limited weapons. My atlas can't do the same, and right now an atlas caught alone with a jenner is a dead atlas, it really has no chance.

If the most agile mech in game couldn't outcircle and kill your atlas mech, which mech should be able to kill your atlas in a one on one? Remember rock, paper, scissors? It's more like that and less like sticks, crossbows, shotguns, nukes.

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

The issue isn't that lights have too much DPS although it should be lowered a bit,

They can have a pretty bad alpha, but aren't able to sustain it ...

[

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

] ... but that they are extremely hard to kill due to lag/bugs/ect.

That is the issue. And they are going to reduce it, or fix it soon.

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

I am fully for the mech balance where every mech out there is able to do a fair amount of damage according to their role.

Oh ok ... mech balance is fine, as long as no one can beat an atlas 1 vs 1.

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

But I do not think that lights should have the damage output of an assault or close.

They don't have. Build a 6 med laser jenner, that has an alpha of 30 and you will be going with reduced speed, reduced armor, reduced jumpjets, without ams and have to hide quite a while after the second salvo. They aren't as bad as you make them.

Edited by Lerzpftz, 05 November 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[Sulf]

[color=#959595]The issue isn't that lights have too much DPS although it should be lowered a bit,[/color]

Lerzpftz, on 05 November 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

They can have a pretty bad alpha, but aren't able to sustain it ...

I agree with everything you say, but I feel I should bring to your attention my raven with 4 Med pulse and DHS. I never stop shooting. Yes it only goes up to 90 with xl, it doesn't have SSRM or anything else, but when it's shooting out your back armor it can be a monster.

[HaDeZs]

Lerzpfts, I completely agree with DPS potential for light mechs but there are builds out there running FF armor that aren't taking the damage they should where most mechs with 2x the HP/Shield would have blown up a few times over. The atlas was an example for how your justifying light mechs abilities compared to the price tag of others. If the light mech should have the abilities of others due to price tag then why don't other larger mechs get what the light mechs get like speeds over 100k, ect? Just trying to prove your view on the way mechs should be balanced wrong. But thats not even the issue.

The real issue is that there are light mech builds running FF armor mitigating more damage than they should. You took it all out of context. I doubt its just a lag issue but im sure the lag isn't helping, I was playing around and equipping FF on a jenner (all I had, sorry jenner people) and my survivability went up a lot. I'm not getting the same tank increase off my hunchie or atlas comparatively. There are plenty of stories on the forums where you hear jenners taking plenty of damage without going boom while others are saying they are quite easy to kill.

I think the problem is with how FF deals with armor increases for light mechs. If you don't think its an issue get a friend to take a jenner out and shoot it with a gauss cat, then do the same again with a FF jenner and you will see a major difference in damage when the 15% should only be a few points on the base armor of a light mech.

[Lerzpftz]

HaDeZs, on 05 November 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

The real issue is that there are light mech builds running FF armor mitigating more damage than they should. You took it all out of context.

Oh. Than i got you wrong - and wrote way to much text to clarify my point of view on the wrong topic. Damn.

Quote

I doubt its just a lag issue but im sure the lag isn't helping, I was playing around and equipping FF on a jenner (all I had, sorry jenner people) and my survivability went up a lot. I'm not getting the same tank increase off my hunchie or atlas comparatively. There are plenty of stories on the forums where you hear jenners taking plenty of damage without going boom while others are saying they are quite easy to kill.

Hmmm ... i didn't have this feeling. I own some standard and a ferro armor jenner, same goes for my HBks...and usually they seem to die equally fast. Maybe this effects only certain weapons. And i have yet to come across one, that is harder kill than it should be. But i'm quite sure, before the last patch it wasn't necessary to lead lasers, while my ping is still the same lousy 120-150ms. So i'm simply hoping, that it is lag only ... and the whole thing is going back to a normal level, when they reverted some of the bad net code tomorrow.

Brickyard, on 05 November 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

[color=#959595]The issue isn't that lights have too much DPS although it should be lowered a bit,[/color]

I agree with everything you say, but I feel I should bring to your attention my raven with 4 Med pulse and DHS. I never stop shooting. Yes it only goes up to 90 with xl, it doesn't have SSRM or anything else, but when it's shooting out your back armor it can be a monster.

Everything is a monster when it's shooting on back armor. I suppose ravens still get that magic "trials" bonus, not to be taken serious enough by most players, since the trial variant is pretty bad. That'll probably change soon.

Edited by Lerzpftz, 05 November 2012 - 02:46 PM.

[Tamerathon]

Lerzpftz, on 05 November 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Funny you picked out 2 lines of my whole post, when i already wrote, that they will be nerfed by several things. When i've read that correctly, they are going to revert a part of netcode changes to the old system, which should help to reduce the lag shields and so on. Which is fine for me, even when i'm piloting one.

Me too.





So it's lame that you can't speed fit your atlas, but each mech should have a specific role? Get used to beeing in a slow boat. ^^



First, please show me jenner doing half the DPS of a decent atlas build.
Second, please show me a mech heavier than a jenner, having less DPS.
Third, I've killed a lot of jenners with my hunchbacks during the last hours.
Fourth, i did the same with my dragon. No streaks involved there.

It is hard, but possible to compensate for their speed, if you can turn faster than
they circle and lead your lasers, even if that's stupid..

Your atlas is the one currently having most troubles. It's the slowest mech in game, remember? That said, they still have to balance and fix lag stuff.

If the most agile mech in game couldn't outcircle and kill your atlas mech, which mech should be able to kill your atlas in a one on one? Remember rock, paper, scissors? It's more like that and less like sticks, crossbows, shotguns, nukes.

They can have a pretty bad alpha, but aren't able to sustain it ...

[ That is the issue. And they are going to reduce it, or fix it soon.

Oh ok ... mech balance is fine, as long as no one can beat an atlas 1 vs 1.

They don't have. Build a 6 med laser jenner, that has an alpha of 30 and you will be going with reduced speed, reduced armor, reduced jumpjets, without ams and have to hide quite a while after the second salvo. They aren't as bad as you make them.

The one on one opponent for an Atlas, should be another Atlas. A 35 ton mech should not be able to compete, and should be running scared at the sight of a 100 ton mech. Your whole idea of "rock paper scissors" is what is wrong with your mentality. It should not be rock paper scissors, but rather, Fist->Hand gun-> Tank. Fist doesn't beat Tank to death, and hand gun can't penetrate tank's armor. Hand gun kills fist, and fist has equal chance against Fist. A light mech should LOSE against an assault, even a poorly piloted one. The first lucky shot on a light mech from a heavy weapons system should utterly wreck it. A Gauss Rifle slug should send it flying.

Here are some TT armor values on the Jenner: http://users.anet.co.../bm-jenner.html

One Gauss slug to a side torso should blow completely through the mech and go internal on the center torso. That isn't happening. A Streak SRM volley should decimate it.

Jenners and other light mechs are meant to rely on their speed to survive. Right now, with the increased armor, they're seeing too much survivability. Coupled with lasers, longer presence on the battlefield means higher damage output.

[Sulf]

Lerzpftz, on 05 November 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Everything is a monster when it's shooting on back armor. I suppose ravens still get that magic "trials" bonus, not to be taken serious enough by most players, since the trial variant is pretty bad. That'll probably change soon.

Trololololo. I'm a light mech! Don't worry about me!

Edited by Brickyard, 05 November 2012 - 02:59 PM.

[Lerzpftz]

Tamerathon, on 05 November 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

The one on one opponent for an Atlas, should be another Atlas.

Oh ... great. So we can just take the other mechs out of the game. Like in the older titles?

Tamerathon, on 05 November 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Your whole idea of "rock paper scissors" is what is wrong with your mentality.

You whole idea of bigger must be better is, what's wrong with your mentality. Ever used your Stalker to fight a Javelin or a Spider on a wood map on TT?

Quote

A light mech should LOSE against an assault, even a poorly piloted one.

Welcome to atlas online.

Quote

The first lucky shot on a light mech from a heavy weapons system should utterly wreck it. A Gauss Rifle slug should send it flying.Here are some TT armor values on the Jenner: http://users.anet.co.../bm-jenner.html

I'm aware of them, thank you. Since you seem to have the urgend need, to teach people, how the tabletop was, please take a look at the armor values of an atlas to refresh your memory:

http://users.anet.co...0/bm-atlas.html

Those puny 32 torso armor protecting this expensive XL engine should vanish by a single salvo of a good hunchback - yet they don't. Oh look! It's got 14 rear armor over the center torso! It explodes when a Raven fires his first alpha!

Mechs survive a lot longer here, which i like since this means it's not insta-dead after 20 seconds of mech fun. Believe me, you don't wont me to pilot any jump capable light, with those armor values. But you may prefer Armed assault, if you like this kind of play.

Edited by Lerzpftz, 05 November 2012 - 03:29 PM.