21 replies to this topic

[Red squirrel]

Hi out there - stay calm this is not a XY killed me so it's OP thread.
I just want to share some experiences about those occations when a funny idea turns out to be just annoying.

This week I met some extreme missle boat teams. And at first it was quite funny to watch beeing slaughtered.

There was this Commando 2D 3xSSRM2 and Jenner D 2xSSRM2 team.
Or this other team where each mech had at least 2xLRM15.

But after a while it gets old. I mean there has been so much complaining going on about the Gaussapult which I honestly never understood. It is a dangerous build just like the Streak Cat but - hey - you can kill it, so whats the problem.

But these teams that boat just 2 or 3 different mechs with similar weapon loadout (mainly LRM or SSRM) It just is not so very interesting anymore. I mean you could of course just hide for 15min and get a tie against the LRM team...but fun?

About the LRM I think ECM will hopefully take care of that but these SSRM teams + broken light hitboxes - just horrible.



Your thoughts?

[Joseph Mallan]

Streaks cannot target you if you are shut down. SO first make sure the Streak boat is only streaks and second be sure you are alone with him before powering down. Otherwise, do all you can to kill streak boats at range. LRMs opposite advice. Get close and ravage with lasers.

[SuomiWarder]

I ran into these groups a few times too. Annoyng, I just eat the loss and collect my small positive C-bill amoun and move on.

The main problem is that I imagine that for most of the people doing it they see no issue. It's a legal way to grind wins and c-bills and no one is stopping other people from doing the same to them.

Hopefully it's a fad. When actual team v team combat for plants is finally implimented I'd hate to see the only winning strategy become all LRMs and SSRMs.

[Ryokens leap]

When our scouts find a boat, especially a streak-cat, they become priority one for LRM targets. As far as LRM boats go we just keep slipping in and out of cover until they expend their ammo, then we advance. It just takes adaptable tactics and patience.

[TruePoindexter]

Ryokens leap, on 05 November 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

When our scouts find a boat, especially a streak-cat, they become priority one for LRM targets. As far as LRM boats go we just keep slipping in and out of cover until they expend their ammo, then we advance. It just takes adaptable tactics and patience.

This

Red squirrel, on 05 November 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Hi out there - stay calm this is not a XY killed me so it's OP thread.
I just want to share some experiences about those occations when a funny idea turns out to be just annoying.

This week I met some extreme missle boat teams. And at first it was quite funny to watch beeing slaughtered.

There was this Commando 2D 3xSSRM2 and Jenner D 2xSSRM2 team.
Or this other team where each mech had at least 2xLRM15.

But after a while it gets old. I mean there has been so much complaining going on about the Gaussapult which I honestly never understood. It is a dangerous build just like the Streak Cat but - hey - you can kill it, so whats the problem.

But these teams that boat just 2 or 3 different mechs with similar weapon loadout (mainly LRM or SSRM) It just is not so very interesting anymore. I mean you could of course just hide for 15min and get a tie against the LRM team...but fun?

About the LRM I think ECM will hopefully take care of that but these SSRM teams + broken light hitboxes - just horrible.



Your thoughts?

First I'd hardly call 2x LRM 15 boating. Lets not forget that's stock on a huge number of variants.

This is usually how upper echelon play translates in any game that allows customization. Players will slowly adopt general builds that are considered "good" out of experience in using and fighting those mechs. It's only natural. It's not an issue with boating but an issue with player psychology. If we were to force players to never carry more than two of the same weapon you would see the same mechs over and over again regardless.

[Red squirrel]

Ryokens leap, on 05 November 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

When our scouts find a boat, especially a streak-cat, they become priority one for LRM targets. As far as LRM boats go we just keep slipping in and out of cover until they expend their ammo, then we advance. It just takes adaptable tactics and patience.

Yes of course that works with one boat....but I meant teams consisting of the same boat only (or mostly).
I just had a game where a single volley of LRMs (probalby 6 mechs with 2xLRM15 or 2xLRM20 ~ 480 damage)
killed me. Otherwise I am quite adapt of hiding ... and bluffing LRM boats to waste their ammo on me.

[Red squirrel]

TruePoindexter, on 05 November 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

First I'd hardly call 2x LRM 15 boating. Lets not forget that's stock on a huge number of variants.

I wrote "at least 2xLRM15" I do not know exactly what they had....I saw 3 Atlai DC some Cats and a Hunch.
After all one LRM strike from that team (I was the unfortunate first guy to be targeted before we found out)
was enough to core me.

Oh yes and they had one 300XL Jenner to give target information .... good work on their side.

Edited by Red squirrel, 05 November 2012 - 03:07 PM.

[hanitora]

Red squirrel, on 05 November 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

But these teams that boat just 2 or 3 different mechs with similar weapon loadout (mainly LRM or SSRM) It just is not so very interesting anymore. I mean you could of course just hide for 15min and get a tie against the LRM team...but fun?

Your thoughts?

Or you could just win the game, you know. Just a thought. I think I saw a team with comps like that a few times, lost to a streak team once but just barely. 1v1 in the end. Never lost to LRM team, did lose to a single double LRM20 Atlas tho, entire team was squatting at long range in the open and got picked off. They felt a bit stupid.

[CeeKay Boques]

8 Jenner Streak Boats only work because collisions are off. If it was on, all that Chaos would be hilarious for the OTHER team instead.

[Vermaxx]

I made one of these threads last night and never bothered to check where it went.

I do not see the point of (somewhat) unlimited mech customization and concentrating it down to "the best builds."

But then, competitive play being what it is, some people want to win more than enjoy fluff, or play 'classic' mechs, or anything else. Considering winning IS the goal of any competitive sport, the ends justify the means.

[Beo Vulf]

Ryokens leap, on 05 November 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

When our scouts find a boat, especially a streak-cat, they become priority one for LRM targets. As far as LRM boats go we just keep slipping in and out of cover until they expend their ammo, then we advance. It just takes adaptable tactics and patience.

Bingo Ryokens leap gets the prize.
Strategy, and Tactics are two words you will hear from the Devs, and from veteran players. This game requires players to use both. Most of the pugs I have been in that loose, loose because they are not using any strategy, or tactics. The ones that win use strategy, and tactics. Another term you will hear is information warfare this means that your scout spots the enemy and lets your team know were they are and which direction they are taking. If you know were they are and were they are going but they do not have that information about your team you have an advantage, can set an ambush, select targets prior to engaging the enemy, and designate firing teams so that more than one mech is firing at a target at the same time.

[TruePoindexter]

Red squirrel, on 05 November 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

I wrote "at least 2xLRM15" I do not know exactly what they had....I saw 3 Atlai DC some Cats and a Hunch.
After all one LRM strike from that team (I was the unfortunate first guy to be targeted before we found out)
was enough to core me.

Oh yes and they had one 300XL Jenner to give target information .... good work on their side.

AS7-D-DC Atlas would mount 3x LRM 15 though it may now be possible to stick an LRM 20 or two.. I haven't tried since CB but back then it was 2xML 3xLRM 15 STD 300 or 2xLL 3xLRM 15 300XL. LRMs seem more boaty than other builds due to their high volume of fire but in reality most mechs can only carry a small number of launchers.

Still please see my former statement about how the same handful of mechs appearing consistently is expected behavior from the community.

[Kaspirikay]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 November 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Streaks cannot target you if you are shut down. SO first make sure the Streak boat is only streaks and second be sure you are alone with him before powering down.

Had someone did this to me once. He powered down and started trashtalking me. Asking me why im not shooting and calling me a toothless cat. I was sad . But then a dragon came from his rear then i said "oh it isnt me you should be worried about".

He didnt last very long.

[Red squirrel]

Beo Vulf, on 05 November 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Strategy, and Tactics are two words you will hear from the Devs, and from veteran players. This game requires players to use both. Most of the pugs I have been in that loose, loose because they are not using any strategy, or tactics. The ones that win use strategy, and tactics. Another term you will hear is information warfare this means that your scout spots the enemy and lets your team know were they are and which direction they are taking. If you know were they are and were they are going but they do not have that information about your team you have an advantage, can set an ambush, select targets prior to engaging the enemy, and designate firing teams so that more than one mech is firing at a target at the same time.

Mhh..kay
How does this exactly relate to this topic?

Hint: This is not the help I die because I am a newb/noob thread.

Anyhow I would like people to actually discuss the topic of this thread or search a thread that is more suitable for what you intend to say. Of course you can win against any team. A missle boating team is not an instant win. This thread is about the diminishing amount of enjoyment meeting these kind of teams over and over brings to me and my question if someone shares this or if you disagree.

But then as someone pointed out as soon as colitions are back in the problem with SSRM teams should be solved instantaneously. (Powering down is not really key since they will have some lazors too)
And ECM might help against these LRM spammers.

Edited by Red squirrel, 05 November 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Beo Vulf]

LOS works to.

[rgreat]

Red squirrel, on 05 November 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Mhh..kay
How does this exactly relate to this topic?

I'll repost.

Quote

Actually best tactic to win with a good team is to attack.
Good executed push cannot be stopped by passive defence.
Initiative rule this game.

P.S. LRM boats are only good for supporting other mechs.
Team with a lot of LRM boats only can win against a bunch of solo players, but yes - most of the PUG's are like that.

[Kaijin]

I have Fun vs. Boats.

[Beo Vulf]

Red squirrel, on 05 November 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Mhh..kay
How does this exactly relate to this topic?

Hint: This is not the help I die because I am a newb/noob thread.

Anyhow I would like people to actually discuss the topic of this thread or search a thread that is more suitable for what you intend to say. Of course you can win against any team. A missle boating team is not an instant win. This thread is about the diminishing amount of enjoyment meeting these kind of teams over and over brings to me and my question if someone shares this or if you disagree.

But then as someone pointed out as soon as colitions are back in the problem with SSRM teams should be solved instantaneously. (Powering down is not really key since they will have some lazors too)
And ECM might help against these LRM spammers.

I do believe this does respond to the original post, and to the post I quoted, but you are entitled to your opinion.

[Shalune]

Red squirrel, on 05 November 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Hi out there - stay calm this is not a XY killed me so it's OP thread.
[...]
Your thoughts?

First up, thanks for -not- making it an XY killed me it's so OP thread!
I think these concerns will all but completely vanish once we have premade matchmaking. Even in the current state of things, which admittedly needs balancing, no one, two, or even three mech types are completely dominant. What this means is that a team fielding all of the same mech type might win a handful of games on shock value, but on the whole they will be inferior to a well balanced team of equal skill.

There are imbalances that will be exploited, but even if you get min/maxy with the game right now a team needs at least 1 scout, 1 scout-killer, 1+ LRMs and 1+ tanky assaults. I don't claim to know enough that I can tell you the ideal 8-man comp right now, but lacking any of those 4 mechs leaves major gaps in your ability to adapt to a smart enemy.

No scout? You won't know how the enemy is maneuvering until it's too late. They can bring their full force to bear on cap or a weak flank.

No scout hunter? Your movements will be easily spotted, targeted by LRMs and have your base capped behind you.

No LRMs? You cannot force a turtling enemy out of position.

No tanks? You cannot hold any position against a concentrated push.

[rgreat]

You can get 1-2 HunchBacks. They are quite versatile.

Edited by rgreat, 05 November 2012 - 05:18 PM.