18 replies to this topic

[TheMagician]

It has been silent over here, while we waited to see how PGI was going to proceed with its matchmaking updates. With the announcement of open beta, we went on indefinite delay until phase 2. Phase 1 is to be implemented this tuesday, Nov. 6, and Phase 2 a couple weeks after that. However, phase 2 has changed a bit. No longer does it use a class-based matchmaking system. Thus, a couple issues show up. First, it questions if it will be feasible to do synced drops. Second, should we do away with our current class-based drop decs, and move to something different, such as 'open' dropdecs (take whatever you want), or tonnage based drop decs (e.g. 500 tons, this way a commando might be taken over another light, to bump a medium to a heavy).

Due to these factors, once we reach Phase 2, we will be testing the system to see how it works, and to see if teams can reasonable be expected to sync drop for the league. We will also test the different options for going forward, and I will open it up to community discussion as well.

I do hope that league play will still be possible. While Phase 3, with its elo system, sounds great, organized play is still important, and if need be we will wait patiently until a feature to allow for private matchmaking, is implemented. PGI has indicated that there will be a cost associated with this, thus, teams will need to be prepared that to participate in the league, may shift you away from being able to do it on a purely-Free2Play mindset.

If you have any questions feel free to ask, and any comments, please offer them.

-TheMagician
RHoD League Director

[EGG]

I'm not in the league, but I was thinking having the tiebreaker drop 5 as "run what you brung" would be interesting.

[BigJim]

Tonnage drop-decs sounds very interesting, and would surely help move away from the current competitive model, where in each class, only one chassis is usually chosen (ie; nobody takes an Awesome over an Atty, or a Dragon over a K2 in a competitive scenario - and when collisions are back in, who would ever take a Commando over a Jenner..?

However, it may be worth considering an additional step. For example, 210 (or some reasonable figure) tonnes per team, but a say a minimum amount of classes must be chosen (ie; Min 1, 2, 2, 0 Light to Assault), with the rest filling out the tonnage as the team sees fit?



If teams can still coordinate to drop together then possibly you could mix up the 5x drops, say, base the core drops on classes, but the tie-breakers on a pure tonnage system, the freedom is there to experiment.

No matter what you choose, it'll have consequences; You might find out you inadvertently remove some classes altogether, for example if people start dropping Lights for Cicadas (only 5 tonnes heavier than a Jenn and can do the same job).

This is an important subject imo, as the league scene is to me, for more important than any galaxy-map based metagame (I'd trade the entire metagame and everything planned for it, for a simple team vs team lobby/interface in my ideal world) - And if the matchmaker makes it impossible to drop team vs team, that's the day I'm out of the game, because there's simply no point in dropping against strangers, it may as well be an offline single player game.

Edited by BigJim, 01 November 2012 - 03:31 AM.

[Kriestov]

"Bring what you want" Drops will be Assault-Fests, and "Tonnage based" Drops will be nothing but K2's with the occasional Jenner. Limiting chassis, is my opinion, is the only way to prevent rather unsavory game types. At least, as far as the current mech building meta is concerned.

If they're shying away from a weight class based matchmaking system, sync dropping is going to be painfully arduous. Solutions? Not a clue.

[TheMagician]

Tonnage based work well in planetary leagues, because you had to take drop decs based on what mechs you had on planet. I'm not sure if that's the best way for a system where you can choose any mech, would work.

Once we get closer to phase 2, I'll try to get teams together, so that we can test things, and see what is most fitting for competitive play, and most enjoyable.

[Digital Ninja]

TheMagician, on 01 November 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

Second, should we do away with our current class-based drop decs, and move to something different, such as 'open' dropdecs (take whatever you want), or tonnage based drop decs (e.g. 500 tons, this way a commando might be taken over another light, to bump a medium to a heavy).

Tonnage is the way to go. If you can bring anything it'll just be all atlases.

[Nathan Bloode]

Kriestov, on 01 November 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

"Bring what you want" Drops will be Assault-Fests, and "Tonnage based" Drops will be nothing but K2's with the occasional Jenner. Limiting chassis, is my opinion, is the only way to prevent rather unsavory game types. At least, as far as the current mech building meta is concerned.

If they're shying away from a weight class based matchmaking system, sync dropping is going to be painfully arduous. Solutions? Not a clue.

I agree that Bring What you Want will definitely be Assault fests, and unfun. But I disagree that tonnage drops would be K2 parties if we implement a team member requirement of 8 players per drop and a class requirement of one mech from each class. The most K2 horking team out there could at best bring: 5 K2s with an Atlas, a Cicada, and a Jenner/Raven. Hell, we could limit chassis to 2 per variant to really get variety in the game. That'd be easy.

I propose: 500 tons, no more than 2 variants of any one chassis and at least one mech of every weight class.

[Stonefalcon]

Nathan Bloode, on 01 November 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

I agree that Bring What you Want will definitely be Assault fests, and unfun. But I disagree that tonnage drops would be K2 parties if we implement a team member requirement of 8 players per drop and a class requirement of one mech from each class. The most K2 horking team out there could at best bring: 5 K2s with an Atlas, a Cicada, and a Jenner/Raven. Hell, we could limit chassis to 2 per variant to really get variety in the game. That'd be easy.

I propose: 500 tons, no more than 2 variants of any one chassis and at least one mech of every weight class.

I would take this even further and limit it to maximum one of each variant with the 500 tonne limit.

[machine]

My opinion is RHoD should use AVERAGE tonnage per player for the league. BattleZone League did this and players really enjoyed the flexibility.

If you set variables of match tonnage, average player tonnage, and maybe a required or banned weight class or two, then you will get a good solid variety of mechs and match types. Odd thoughts nagging me is map choice and playoffs having interesting match play types to force some changes in set team behaviours etc.. maybe requiring a few mechs with certain weapon systems (eg. missles and lights / 450 max range etc)

Current RHoD 2/2/2/2 Ranges:
High - 100/100/65/65/50/50/35/35 = 500 tons. (500/8=62.5 tons per player average)
Low - 80/80/60/60/40/40/20/20 = 400 tons. (400/8=50 tons per player average)

Random example 8 player drop dec:

Round 1 - 450 / limit max 1 heavy, min 3 mediums
Round 2 - 500 / limit none
Round 3 - 350 / limit min 1 assault
Round 4 - 400 / limit max 1 light, 1 heavy

As I just made the example up feel free to make it better and look beyond it to versatility, including later when uneven team sizes are allowed. Going by tonnage per team is the most flexible thing I can think of.

The ELO system can later be used to set a handicap on team tonnage as well as for map bid when that becomes available and other elements. It would be nice to see a system where voluntarily giving up players and/or tonnage gives a modifier for points awarded for a match etc.

Edited by machine, 01 November 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[Sears]

We too with the Trial by Fire event are wondering about matchmaking. RHOD is popular, and we have also gotten a lot of interest, so it is quite clear that competitive play is important. I hope that with Phase 2 if two groups launch at the same time it will still pair them regardless of what mechs are in that team. We will still be requiring certain team compositions.

Perhaps just a temporary system where 16 members could be placed in a group which then has two sub groups. Once past 8 the group has to get 16 to launch.

[Rathe]

where has PGI indicated that 'private matchmaking' will cost $$?

edit: *brings out pitchfork*

Edited by Rathe, 01 November 2012 - 05:17 PM.

[machine]

They didnt neccessarily, rather you likely will not earn cbills/xp from private matches - in effect consuming resources without replenishing them which is a cost.

[Rathe]

machine, on 01 November 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

They didnt neccessarily, rather you likely will not earn cbills/xp from private matches - in effect consuming resources without replenishing them which is a cost.

oh, ok, the way he said it, I thought PGI said they're charge you an RL $ amount per match.

[TheMagician]

Thank you for the good comments so far.

[cmopatrick]

perhaps an addition could be made to the groups tab... a tournament drop (or call it what you will).

one commander would be considered the host and have one extra invite option, to pick up another group by name. then the host would drop all members of both groups with the launch into the exact same server (segregated into their respective groups, of course). all it would need on the far end is an available server.

btw, i am interested. still not sure CMO or any of our old associated teams will be dropping enough folks together any time soon to compete, but i might consider mercing if i can prove to someone that i'm worth the effort.

[Kilgore]

Is there a website setup for this tournament? I know it's not active right now, but I was wondering what the best way to get read up on it is.

[Comassion]

I would love to see tonnage-based drops. It'll make the metagame much more interesting than the current model.

[John Clavell]

I don't mind tonnage drops, because it's old hat for a good few of the teams. However, I'd like to make sure units turn up prepped for drops. And not make units wait 30-60 minutes after the scheduled time while they work out their drop dec, if that is how the matchmaker ends up working. Units need have their drop decs sorted out before they turn up. So tonnages should be set as has been the weight class setups used previously as in predefined for each of the five possible drops.

[Lord Ikka]

9th Sword is still in and looking forward to RHoD. Tonnage/Class matters not at all to us, we're just ready to fight some good teams.