78 replies to this topic

[Onyx Rain]

Zeno Scarborough, on 07 November 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

What happens when they get too close though? The LRMs don't seem to do damage then.

There is a min range, as there always has been with LRMs...180m I think. The problem is LRMs are so OP now that if the other team is remotely decent, You are dead before you ever get within 180m.

[El Penguin]

They need to change the angle of LRMs coming down or atleast for the non-upgraded ones. Right now this happens to me

[anonymous175]

Onyx Rain, on 07 November 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

There is a min range, as there always has been with LRMs...180m I think. The problem is LRMs are so OP now that if the other team is remotely decent, You are dead before you ever get within 180m.

Oh.

[Onyx Rain]

El Penguin, on 07 November 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

They need to change the angle of LRMs coming down or atleast for the non-upgraded ones. Right now this happens to me

Yep that is the main issue...
At most LRMs should only be able to do this with Artemis...but from what I've seen, and from what some LRM boats who don't run Artemis are telling me, they can do this without it even. That is very bad. Probably still OP even if it is just with Artemis.

[Kymlaar]

I think that three things need to happen in order to bring LRMs back in line with their fire-support role:

1) ECM
It won't stop anyone from hitting you, but it will allow you to dodge in and out of cover without having hellfire rained down every time you're visible.

2) LRM Damage to 1 from 2
The current damage of LRMs means that a single volley a cat can almost destroy a high speed light with an AMS system active, or a medium with AMS in two volleys. The LRMs might have Artemis (that's not clear), but either way it should be something that softens up targets, finishes damaged components and mechs, and can take them out if they remain visible for a while (not long enough to fire two volleys).

3) C3
Spotting in the current system means that even if an LRM boat is the one that sees you, everyone on their team with LRMs can fire. Teams should need a C3 command unit on a larger mech and then slaves on others if they want to take advantage of spotting. This would help by both increasing weight restrictions and providing priority targets both for destruction and ECM jamming.

Hopefully we'll see a few of the above soon.

[Elizander]

I was observing an Artemis-enabled Catapult after I died earlier. I noticed that almost all missiles from his 4 launchers hit targets like Catapults with almost no missiles missing. The bulk lands on the torso/head area and a few get the legs. I'm not sure why it's so accurate.

[Farotsu]

I really liked the LRM balance before patch. They punished bad play severely but were made mostly ineffective with good play. As it stands right now, as long as the spotter survives and no-one gets close enough to brawl the lrm-boats, they are devastating everything. Today I ran a few matches on my 3xLLas, Gauss, 2xStreak Atlas and scored around 550-650 damage per match. I was able to avoid LRM fire alltogether and was able to avoid it completely most of the time by our 4man group killing spotters and sticking together.

Getting to any kind of brawling distance was impossible though and when I finally was brought down by a single Awesome with dual LRM-15 because of the rain mostly destroying my head, I decided to try out the LRM:s. No two ways about it. The current state is laughable and honestly I think that they accidentally rolled back the old firing arc or something and this LRM hide-and-seek gameplay is seriously not fun.I thought the point of Artemis was that it directed the fire towards higher up in the torso and tighter in group rather than change the whole firing arc different.

After a few more matches with my friends we decided that until the firing arc is fixed, we ain't going to touch the game because of what the gameplay regresses into.

Edited by Farotsu, 07 November 2012 - 02:39 AM.

[peve]

I seem to do only bad choises.

I had a very nice Dragon with 4 medium pulse lasers + streaks. Very good brawler.

The I heard about the DHS 1.4 patch, which would also up the pulse laser heat.

So I sold my levelled Dragons and bought a commando.

Bad move, all money lost Commando just keeps dying to lrm fire the second it gets hit, no matter how I run. And I have the fastest XL and know how to dodge.

Ah, this game is just insane. Maybe I will buy a cat next. Then they will make lrms obsolete, I guess.

[Bastiat]

So I've taken a few screenshots here and there of the ridiculous damage some LRM boats are putting out, and this one in particular was just...silly:

Spoiler

I did a bit of scouting/spotting that game, and the initial LRM volley from my team (the majority of which seem to have been coming from our #1 damage player) stripped all of the armor from a Dragon's rear center torso pretty much immediately (and did the same to a Jenner shortly thereafter).

Virtually all of the players that I've seen doing 800+ damage in a match have been running missile boats. Everyone else needs a somewhat long game + not being shot at that much (especially by enemy LRMs) in order to get that kind of damage going; a missile boat pilot can do it with a fraction of the time and effort required by others.

If I have >= 3 missile boats on my team, I'd probably be more helpful if I just stripped off all my weapons and stood on a hillside somewhere spotting for them - it's downright ridiculous, and really sucks all of the fun factor out of the game. "Oh look, I'm halfway through this brawl here and another enemy player pushed R and followed it up with his left mouse button. Now I've taken as much damage in his one volley as I have in the last 30 seconds that I've been fighting this guy that doesn't have LRMs. Time to run away and use these buildings/hills for cover! Nevermind, that didn't work - volleys two (and maybe 3, if I'm lucky) still landed on me even though I'm using cover, now I'm dead."

[Xerxys]

Zeno Scarborough, on 07 November 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

What happens when they get too close though? The LRMs don't seem to do damage then.

You have to survive long enough to get close. In a Jenner running 149.3KPH I will be taken out if more than one boat is on me and I'm streaking toward an enemy at long distance. LRMs were always powerful and, while annoying, they could be pretty easily avoided. Not anymore. They drop straight down on you regardless of cover and with TAG or NARC, you're going to take the whole load of missiles to the face no matter what you do.

Before this last patch your concern was legitimate, but now not so much and it takes one load of dual LRM 20's to core a light mech.

[Mr GreenSuit]

Closing on the missile boats to 180m doesnt do jack ****, the second and third one on their team will be 180M apart and shoot you anyway. The kicker is a good LRM boat won't even be bothered by a light shooting him if his team is after that light and will continue to shoot missiles down range... only the bad ones get distracted. LRMs have the highest damage for the lowest heat, lowest weight, Best accuracy, highest range and least skill required. They were OP even when you could duck and cover and now that you can't even do that it feels like the game is trolling us. Will not be playing until fixed.

[Pogs]

There is no point running anything else but a lrm boat or fast scout atm. All other mechs are redundant - lrm op, fast scouts impossible to take down before the lrm boats toast you. end of.

[Mike McSullivan]

Kymlaar, on 07 November 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

I think that three things need to happen in order to bring LRMs back in line with their fire-support role:

1) ECM
It won't stop anyone from hitting you, but it will allow you to dodge in and out of cover without having hellfire rained down every time you're visible.

2) LRM Damage to 1 from 2
The current damage of LRMs means that a single volley a cat can almost destroy a high speed light with an AMS system active, or a medium with AMS in two volleys. The LRMs might have Artemis (that's not clear), but either way it should be something that softens up targets, finishes damaged components and mechs, and can take them out if they remain visible for a while (not long enough to fire two volleys).

3) C3
Spotting in the current system means that even if an LRM boat is the one that sees you, everyone on their team with LRMs can fire. Teams should need a C3 command unit on a larger mech and then slaves on others if they want to take advantage of spotting. This would help by both increasing weight restrictions and providing priority targets both for destruction and ECM jamming.

Hopefully we'll see a few of the above soon.

Absolutely agree!
but to addd 3b) let TAG and Narc do the same job (like it is now)

[Zerikin]

Not even going to login again until they fix the giant fubar of a patch that this was.

[Shaddock]

Since Open Beta launch I have strongly defended the current LRM model, but in closed beta and now I am equally as strongly opposing the current flight model. Under the model we had last week you could use terrain to avoid the LRMs and it was your own fault for being hit by then, as of the patch yesterday that is no longer true

[Voridan Atreides]

Kaijin, on 06 November 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

LRMs are not killing gameplay. LRMs+Artemis with no ECM counter is.

Tru dat

[Onyx Rain]

This is why LRMs seem OP...


Because they are OP...(At least now)

Edit:
Actually upon closer inspection... The arc on these missiles isn't as insane as the arc on Mwo LRMs, and his umbrella is probably more effective then our tall buildings, mountains, and AMS combined.

PGI... Please give us tiny umbrella module!!!!

PGI > ACME
http://en.wikipedia....cme_Corporation

Edited by Onyx Rain, 07 November 2012 - 07:52 AM.

[Wispsy]

I cannot see how this would change competitive gameplay. They should still not be used cover was never really the issue as sensible positioning (something one would expect from competitive pvp) nullified it anyway, now people can fire whilst staring at mountains but the reasons it would not be used should not have changed. They are still too powerful now and artemis just means your positioning is irrelevant which is the only moderately skillful part about it (if you think an lrmboat needs to worry more about positioning then any other weapon user you are kidding yourself and a bad player).
Just saying

Anyway I have clearly been against the way gameplay is more focused on missiles for a while now and more people using them is not encouraging to log on, but meh I still like most things about this game.

One point I will say though, artemis has made a scouts life much much easier. Before you could not dodge coordinated fire from more then 1 lrmer from different angles without just running behind as much cover as possible and praying or making a headlong dash at the closest and dodging the other guy and hope there is not a third. Now that a large number of people are using artemis I can reliably dodge all the lrms thrown at me unless there are 2+ people without it So well it makes my life easier having it in...but it makes games even less fun having so many missiles every damn match :/

[MorbidGamer]

This sums it up.

[Draco Harkins]

Umbra8, on 06 November 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

Some things to note:

- LRM's do two damage to keep in line with armour being roughly doubled vs its listed value. May need to be scaled back, but putting them to one damage would not be true to TT, as armour values are also scaled up from TT.

- Part of the problem is that Artemis is only supposed to work if the firing mech has line of sight to the target. Doesn't seem that way now, probably a bug or an oversight. Get that fixed and re-evaluate.

- The 90 degree angle drop on missile tracking is a big part of the problem as it eliminates the effectiveness of cover. May also be an oversight, or if not, should be reverted.

Finally a voice of reason! Yes i agree it should only work when the mech that shoots them has LOS and that intrigued me as well. Also i disagree with the OP, LRM's boat are not formula for instant win, i've deployed LRM's cats with the new patch and still got my *** kicked with PUGs on my team just because we couldnt get locks. So again i say if people are complaining again about LRM's you're doing it wrong. The OP used a spotter and took out 7 mechs, thats the objective of the game last time i saw it, its TEAMPLAY, If you had only the 2 Cat's with LRM'20 i can garantee you that you would be killed in short order and would have killed jack and nothing. Last night we were able by chance to get a group of my own troopers againts each other and since we HAVE TRAINING which is what we have been screaming to the new players to get instead of whinning about it, it was extremely dificult to get LRM's locks, similar to a chess game where the side that made the wrong move lost the game. In this perspective Artemis IV came to help the tactical aspect of the game itself and i hope it came here to stay with the ONLY change to it would be for me making it LOS only, in fact i would welcome the challenge of mastering LOS LRM+Artemis IV use.

By the way, those 7 kills you had are the same pugs that come here and think this is Call of Duty and then come whinning they cant kill everything in sight when they are running in open terrain or hidding with gausspults without communicating what they see or what they are doing. With no communication there is no victory. Period.

Edited by Draco Harkins, 07 November 2012 - 08:24 AM.