121 replies to this topic

[Vulture2k]

every other weapon does same damage as tabletop (with minor tweaks) lrm should be too.. lrm are a "debuff".. they are to soften up armor of targets before others kill them.. atm its the killer itself..

if we have 40 damage lrm, give me 40 damage ac20 too..

[Khobai]

Quote

if we have 40 damage lrm, give me 40 damage ac20 too..

Nope. Again... LRMs spread thier damage out and cant be aimed at specific locations. AC20s dont spread their damage out and can be aimed. If an AC20 did 40 damage it would be a completely overpowered weapon.

[Goit]

Change damage to 1.5 and change arc back or change damage to 1 and leave arc same.

[The Herrick]

I think a LRMs nerf would be good but it's only really treating the symptom and not the main problem.

The core issue is that LRMs are too safe, you can put out a lot of damage with very little risk to yourself while requiring significantly more skill to counter effectively. Really, I'm not sure what -can- be done about this, the weapon has inherently very few drawbacks, targeting data is going to be relayed to you naturally since unless you run with 7 other LRM boats someone on your team is gonna be getting up close so they can do damage while you catch a free ride. The minimum range isn't a huge issue either because 800 meters or so is still a massive distance to cross even with cover, especially when most of the time the LRM boat isn't the sole threat to you either.

I would lobby for more teamwork required to use them but these is a fine line between making them team oriented and only viable in premades. So suggestions like requiring TAG/NARC to fire on targets over 500m away/without clear line of sight won't do because you cannot guarantee them on your allies mechs.

What could work is scaling LRM accuracy to the quality of targeting data received. Ravens for example could provide very precise lock on information very quickly allowing for precision strikes with minimal delay, whilst mechs less optimized for such a task would take ages to provide accurate data. You can still fire from the very moment those red blips appear on screen but you'd only be managing to hit the general area. Combined with AMS it could mean only a handful out of a 20 strong volley even do damage. More mechs locking the same target and TAG/NARC could significantly reduce the time required for accurate sensor data. You could also combine this with friendly fire so that LRM users without restraint could potentially pose just a big a threat to their spotters as their targets.

This would hopefully make LRMS more of a team weapon and give some of the under utilized mechs a new role while still keeping it viable enough to use in Pugs.

[Daekar]

No, 1.5 isn't enough. Either they nerf the hell out of the trajectories and drop the damage to 1.8, or the leave trajectories as-is and low the damage to 1.0 at most.

[Belorion]

Even though I voted yes, I think a value closer to 1.75 would be good, but they would have to up the number or rounds per ton of ammo to compensate. This would open up room for the mrms to be 2.0 damage dealers.

[BlackAce]

No. The trajectory needs fixing not the damage.

[SmithMPBT]

Orzorn, on 07 November 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

That just sounds like a reason to buff the LB 10-X to me!

Here here! My dual LB10X Atlas would love it.

BlackAce, on 07 November 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

No. The trajectory needs fixing not the damage.

Direct trajectory, no going UP or around corners should solve most of the problems. Mix in a small nerf maybe to 1.75 and we'd be in business.

Edited by SmithMPBT, 07 November 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Erasus Magnus]

i would go as far and saying let lrms be 1.5 and reduce artemis lrms to 1 dmg flat,
but double the amount of lrms per ton for both.
artemis missiles have sophisticated targeting devices in their warhead which should reduce the amount of explosives they carry.
and double the amount per ton because they still have bt amount of ammo, which is per 10 seconds, but lrms fire much more often than that.

perhaps let artemis only kick in if the firing mech only has direct LOS, which would be in line with bt rules.

I play a missile boat atlas and right now i switched to trial catapult becaus artemis lrm isnt even funny anymore.

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 07 November 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[Noth]

Khobai, on 07 November 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Nope. Again... LRMs spread thier damage out and cant be aimed at specific locations. AC20s dont spread their damage out and can be aimed. If an AC20 did 40 damage it would be a completely overpowered weapon.

So do SRMs, SSRMs, and the LBX, further they require much shorter range and essentially LOS. SRM and SSRM were buffed by .5 and the LBX was buffed by nothing despite hitting in a randomized way and having far more draw backs than LRMs.

[Cel]

Noth, on 07 November 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

So do SRMs, SSRMs, and the LBX, further they require much shorter range and essentially LOS. SRM and SSRM were buffed by .5 and the LBX was buffed by nothing despite hitting in a randomized way and having far more draw backs than LRMs.

lol and blowing up instantly as soon as armor is gone!

[MustrumRidcully]

Cel, on 07 November 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

lol and blowing up instantly as soon as armor is gone!

Are you sure? I thought it exploded even earlier.

[lsp]

I would accept it if they where nerfed right out of the game. Like ssrm-2's where.

[Cel]

MustrumRidcully, on 07 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Are you sure? I thought it exploded even earlier.

Also, you ready to get your mind blown? apparently it's....

working as intended

Not even trolling, it was posted by someone from staff (whether he was allowed to say it or not).

daemur, on 06 November 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

A number of additional improvements have rolled out with this build as well is the introduction of a new weapon system. The hitbox detection which deteriorated over the past builds has been significantly improved and will obviously increase damage across the board. The Artemis missile system also drastically improves the potential of missile boats to hit their targets and to do so in critical locations.

As I said we are aware of the paper doll and are looking into it, however I will safely say you should only be taking appropriate/deserved damage. If you believe you have a separate issue you should submit a support ticket and we will look into it.

Again thanks for the support.

"...Everyone is definitely softer now..."

daemur, on 06 November 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Hit detection has been improved.

Edited by Cel, 07 November 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[StickEGreen]

Take it down to 1.0 like it should be. Or double every other weapons damage (and then patch it without testing).

[Grizley]

Bartolomeo, on 07 November 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

i think damage is fine... but they really need to make lrm blockable by cover... in this patch only skyscrapers can block lrm...

Skyscrapers and... the bridge in the river map.

I had great fun last night hiding under the bridge and tearing up people who were wasting tons of ammunition on trying to blow a hole in the bridge deck...

In one game I killed a commando who was spotting for a row of cats on the riverbank and then sat there and picked off two of the cats with Jenner. They took the lasers off their mechs for MOAR MISSILEZ and demonstrated exactly why lrm mechs always have backup directfire weapons.

[Nightfangs]

1.5 would still be a deadly weapon, 1.0 would be quite balanced in my oppinion (and most of the people I play with).

1.5 would be acceptable if:

• The crazy flight curves are changed back a bit.
  
• More importantly, the LRMs stop flying through 20 meters of concrete buildings!

[Sir Wulfrick]

Leave LRM stats as they are, I don't have an issue with that. However, we should then have:

1. Guardian ECM should negate any advantage from BAP, Artemis IV, TAG etc.
2. Give me an EFFECTIVE AMS, not the I-shot-down-a-missile-once-I-think-it-was-last-Tuesday current AMS implementation.

These two simple solutions would leave LRMs as an effective weapon, would provide a fairly effective counter and would also give people even more useful equipment to test & play with.

[Sputty]

They don't need to nerf anything, just get rid of the Artemis IV. It's an unnecessary option that complicates balance.

Also, when LRMs were doing 1.6 damage people outright stopped using them with the lock-on change because they were too ineffective. Catapults became SRM boats and no one bothered even trying to use them. The Artemis just threw out what they have achieved so far.

[Keifomofutu]

I don't know why people keep talking about damage. Artemis negating all cover but caves and tunnels is the problem.

As far as artemis is concerned the map might as well be completely flat. Fix this issue and you can use terrain to neutralize LRMs like before.

EDIT:And now the on top of your head artemis arc is a confirmed bug so there you go. Add ECM and without the silly terrain negating arc I doubt artemis will be OP by the next patch.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 07 November 2012 - 12:28 PM.