38 replies to this topic

[Decoherent]

I didn't really care for the 3C. The only engine I had sitting around was the 320XL from my 2A, and it's so heavy all I could fit in was a large laser and a single AC/5. I kept the chassis, and if I have tons of money someday I'll downgrade the engine and wrap the chassis around some much nastier ballistics, but ballistics and their ammo are just heavy.

My CDA-2A is my go-to. I consider an XL engine a must, as you get 10+ tons of loadout. Currently I'm using endo/DHS and 6xML, which means I'm fast, well-armored, and have a pretty nasty bite. It's fun if you like fast laser light-ish brawlers.

[michaelius]

I don't see that much point in XL engine - even with normal one my 2B goes 129 km/h after unlocking whole family skills and that's with 4 MLs and 15 DHS while keeping repair costs after being cored at very comfortable 30-35k levels (worst case scenario <40k).

[Tuhalu]

michaelius, on 11 November 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

I don't see that much point in XL engine - even with normal one my 2B goes 129 km/h after unlocking whole family skills and that's with 4 MLs and 15 DHS while keeping repair costs after being cored at very comfortable 30-35k levels (worst case scenario <40k).

I roll with a 280XL (for 113.4kph), so I get 4 MPL, 1 TAG and 15 DHS. The precision on my pulse lasers means that you better run instead of fighting because I will shred you before you can hurt me much. I make an average of 200K credits per game, so I don't care about paying an extra 10k for repairs every 3 or 4 games.

[Hayashi]

It is worth noting that Cicadas have a larger turn radius than lights. Speed isn't everything, in a fast paced match against lights the Cicada will always lose.

[Biotox]

Hayashi, on 11 November 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

It is worth noting that Cicadas have a larger turn radius than lights. Speed isn't everything, in a fast paced match against lights the Cicada will always lose.

I wouldn't say they always lose to other lights, seen many lights fall to Cicadas just like I've seen Cicadas fall to lights.

[Raptor6]

Flying Fish, on 07 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

i ran a cicada in closed beta. I wasn't personally into it, but im really not a light/fast med sort of guy. i honestly liked the trial raven better. if you're looking for more of a jenner-like strafe/harrassing mech go for the cicada. the raven is more of a scout and bug out if someone starts shooting kind of mech. the one thing i will say about the cicada: DO NOT PUT AN XL ENGINE IN IT!!! its side torso is just way too big of a target, and you'll get totaled almost instantly.

Not so. I'm running a 3m and have great survivability as long as I don't get too stupid. I actually removed the UAC5 and have 4 med pulse lasers and the thing can deal out the damage. The XL is almost a must IMHO.

Edited by Raptor6, 11 November 2012 - 08:12 AM.

[Bagheera]

CocoaJin, on 07 November 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

The Raven is generally light on speed and damage output(though Ive seen Gauss builds deliver significant burst damage when part of a well coordinated team). But I tend to think the Raven will really show its value when BAP and ECM come online...though its low top speed will be a liability, prompting one to look into XL engines to gain speed and still have tonnage for some defensive oriented weapons.

This. The Cicada will go faster than the Raven - even modified because of engine restrictions. Interestingly though, because the Cicada's ballistic points are in its torso, and the 4X has one in its arm - the Raven is a better choice for a small mech with either gauss or AC20. You can still XL an AC20 Raven 4X, not so with any of the Cicadai. I did get some surprised reactions when my 4X was dropping AC20 rounds onto various assault mechs, but without team support that build is very lackluster. Too slow to be effective as a light and gets murdered fast by proper lights.

I really like the Cicada, and with the armor maxed it's a durable little bug at high speed. You just have to remember to duck frequently to protect your head, since the cockpit is right there in the middle of your front facing surface.

[ICEFANG13]

I have done a lot of both, but more in Raven land, I will suggest stuff to you.

Firstly, do not care the initial speed of the mech, unless you need to use it, when you get that Raven, don't use it until you can get a bigger XL engine in it, at 81, it is honestly worthless. Always consider using the largest engine possible, on that note, some of them have limits set on them. You want to move as fast as possible, almost all the time.

The ballistic hard point Raven (the RVN-4X I think, I'm going with that), in my opinion, is terrible. When you asked which is best, ballistics are by far the worst (IN MY OPINION!) for light mechs. Machine Guns are completely worthless and the next lightest is the AC/5 at 5 tons, if I remember right. To fit one on the Raven, and even a ton of ammo, really sucks the tonnage up too much to be effective. Remember, you need at least a large sized engine, and that really limits your weapons to 2 Tons each maximum. Running a single AC/5 is not very good either, but could be effective at long ranges I suppose. Biggest reason this one is terrible, it can only mount a 245 engine max, and that means that other scouts will eat it up. It is unique as a ballistic hard point light mech, but it can't really do anything well over lasers usually.

The energy Raven, RVN-2X, is better because laser weapons are generally better on light mechs, for tonnage issues. But the 2X fails on the same reason that the 4X does, only a 245 engine max. This currently makes the Jenner, honestly, 99% better for almost anything.

The missile Raven, RVN-3L, is the best Raven, as it can hold a 295 engine. It has one less hard point for energy than the D Jenner, but it doesn't lose to the Jenner on one simple fact. In closed beta, when I was playing it, it would automatically stagger its missile fire, so the 2 SSRMs I was using on my Jenner and Raven, the Raven ran cooler because of that. That saved a ton of heatsinks (or more, depends on your build), and the speed difference between the 295/300 is about 5KPH max, so there is a free ton and a half. That does matter for light mechs.

I have less experience with Cicadas, but based on my time in a Jenner (and I'm a good pilot), and the Ravens, I used some mental copy paste.

I want to use the largest engine, this makes the Cicada slightly slower than scouts, and a lot of the extra 5 tons is used up on this, but I feel that any Cicada not faster than 111 is going to be ground meat.

The 4 ballistic hard point Cicada is worthless. The only thing you can really get in there is 4 Machine Guns, which, if I remember correctly, have less DPS than a single small laser....

The 1 ballistic hard point Cicada is much better than the 2 ballistic hard point Raven, because in such a light mech, you'll only want one slot used anyway, and the Cicada probably can do an AC/5 (or more?) effectively. I personally prefer lasers and missiles though.

I see no reason to use the 5 laser Cicada over the 6 laser. I understand the difference between the two, and the ability to mount an extra laser seems more worth it to me all the time, even if you find yourself only using >6 often.

The lack of missile hard points on the Cicada kinda hurt it. It is best for hit and run all the time, not for scouting, not for fighting, but does take a fair amount of punishment.
______________________________________________________________________________

Overall, just for the one you want to fill for roll. If you are good at keeping your crosshairs on enemies at fast speed, then you can use the Cicada for light scouting, scout killing (very important), general teammate support, and helping your team engage an enemy team by running behind them and taking a few shots to discombobulate them. I suggest higher damage and lower heat efficiency for the quick harass hit and run, and lower damage and higher heat efficiency for teammate support in combat and light killing. The only honest good Raven is the 3L. I would take it if you want to scout more, and find you enjoy using missiles. It would make it better for close encounters with SRM's or SSRM's, and the 3 lasers is quite good. The Raven is generally more stuck to its roll as a scout, but can fight other scouts more effectively, and engage other targets better. It can't switch up as easily, or take as much abuse.

[Hayashi]

Some people use the 2 AC/2 or even up to 4 AC/2 Cicada. It's actually pretty good if you shoot and run, rather than standing in one place and shooting till you overheat and shutdown. It's easily murdered by lights, but few other mechs of that kind of speed have such an impact on Assault mechs... =P

Though of course the 4 AC/2 variant isn't fast at all.

[Goliath 3000]

i have xl340 engine for now. first i was using 3mpl and 3 medium lasers. but i'm getting destroyed quickly because of low armor. since yesterday i have 6 medium lasers and more armor. it seems good for now

[RFMarine]

i'm running a cicada now, the 2A model with 6 energy slots. The lack of arm weapon hardpoints makes this potentially more survivable

however, its a little light on punch. Default is 2 ML, 1 SL and I have to remove something to make room for AMS. I ended up getting endo steel and a smaller 290 engine. 117 kph is acceptable to me since I used the free tonnage for more lasers + armor

[malibu43]

I have a STD 195 engine in my Raven 4X right now, and while it doesn't seem like a lot, the boost in speed from 81kph to 91kph makes a big difference in ability to run away from mediums, and heavies and also to hunt down scouts. I was reluctant for a long time to dump my SRM6 since it has such a high alpha damage, but I finally broke down and dropped an SSRM2 in there instead. I've only had a handful of matches in this new configuration, but it seems to be a much more effective Commando/Cicada killer now. Jenners can still be tough but the streaks make a huge difference. I just hang with the heavies until the enemy scouts show up and then I chase them off. It seems to be working pretty well. Also I'm taking advantage of the 75% free rearm right now and not rearming after matches.

STD195
2ML + 1 extra heatsink
SSRM2 + 2 tons ammo
2MG + 1 ton ammo
2 JJ

I know the MG's aren't that effective (but they are fun and heat free). I can probably dump them and upgrade to MPLAS. Or maybe once they fix JJ's I'll need to add more.

Once I have plenty of CB stockpiled I'll probably drop in an XL245 and switch to DHS, which will help with the speed a lot and really add more loadout options.

edit - I'll also add that I'm finally figuring out what role suits this mech (and/or my playstyle) and that has also added a lot to my enjoyment of the game. I was trying to run this mech as a "scout" ahead of the pack, identifying targets, etc... I finally realized it doesn't have the speed for that, and that I'm not good enough at this point to play that role effectively anyway (confirmed this by running the trial Cicada). The Raven does much better when you have your teammates and lots of cover around. Keep the enemy scouts away from your team and punish them for getting to close. Don' let them luer you out into the open or across the map where you're isolated and can be eaten alive by their big boys.

Edited by malibu43, 12 November 2012 - 09:32 AM.

[Dirus Nigh]

My best raven load outs let be be an effective scout and flanker for brawls.

2 med pulse lasers SRM6 and TAG.

I have had success with a large laser, or ER, with Tag and a streak.

The 3L can be configured as a body guard with 2 med pulse and 2 streaks.

When I get an XL I use a 210 engine.


I do not use NARC it is not worth the 4 tons to use it.

[Gauvan]

I did not see this mentioned but I think it bears consideration. Current matchmaking is done by class, not tonnage, so by taking a Cicada you may be individually matched with a Hunchback or Centurion. I think in most cases pilot skill will make up for a few tons up or down, but with two or three on a side you are cutting into the team's hitting power. Until the matchmaking is changed, if you enjoy playing the scout/harrasser role I'd favor light mechs.

[Tuhalu]

Gauvan, on 12 November 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

I did not see this mentioned but I think it bears consideration. Current matchmaking is done by class, not tonnage, so by taking a Cicada you may be individually matched with a Hunchback or Centurion. I think in most cases pilot skill will make up for a few tons up or down, but with two or three on a side you are cutting into the team's hitting power. Until the matchmaking is changed, if you enjoy playing the scout/harrasser role I'd favor light mechs.

The side with fewer or no scouts is often at an advantage. A Cicada does fine work as a scout. A Hunchback or a Centurion is far too slow. So think of it as adding a scout to your side and (probably) denying their side one!

[Chrohno]

I currently run a CDA-2A. I have been experimenting with a few different load outs and have come to enjoy running a XL255 engine, 6 small pulse lasers, DHS and AMS.

I set the lasers up into 3 fire groups of 2 each. You can very nearly keep up a non-stop rate of fire without going over 50% heat. Running it this way gives me a constant opportunity to break out a 6 SPL alpha strike whenever I need an extra burst as the opponents armor gets low. This works incredibly well for legging or de-arming an opponent. The role that I try to strictly follow is to hunt and leg opposing scouts, and generally disrupt enemy support, LRM boats and such.

Last night I was able to achieve 4 kills and 4 assist in a match, dealing 945dmg total.

The mechs I hate dealing with the most are Jenners with 4ML's and 2 SSRM2's.

Edited by Chrohno, 12 November 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[alaskanwyvern]

I've been using both Cicadas and Ravens before, and gotta say, the Cicada is by far my favorite. Get yourself a 2A with a 290-300XL engine, then start upgrading everything as you can. My loadout is 6 medium lasers set up like Chrohno described, and I can still do about 120kph, and with upgrades, I can still fit 270pt of armor and have very effective heat management. I can often strip all the rear armor off an Atlas before they notice me, and when they do, they usually can't hit me by themselves. If they do, I've got a bit more survivability than your average Jenner.

If you want to hunt lights, go for the Jenner, not the Raven. Ravens are mostly for missile spotting, which is an important role in and of itself. If you want to seriously mess with Assaults and Catapults, go with the Cicada. The Cicada will take a bit more initial investment, but when you get it where you want it, it's a killer.

[killNbeg]

I've been running a cicada 3c. Drop the engine to xl265 so I can carry a gauss rifle with 3 tons ammo and medium pulse laser. Pretty good at harassing big mechs and can hold its own against jenners in flatish terrain. Was hoping for an ac20 but it don't fit with the xl.

For scout hunting, I used a lbx10 and large pulse laser. The other mechs are faster than you, but since you outrange them it doesn't matter as much.

[DivineEvil]

I'm running a harasser-role Cicada 2B.

Standard Armor 256/274
Endo-Steel Structure
XL Engine 315 (127.5 kph)
13 Double Heat Sinks
1 Large Laser (CT mounted)
4 Medium Lasers (LA/RA mounted)

Standard Armor is better due to repair costs. Cicada possess enough speed survivability to keep up without FF Armor, while given chance of running into massive trouble can deny a mere 12% bonus defenses for about the double armor replenishment cost. If you're running Cicada properly, armor is the only thing that you'll end up repairing, since you can spread damage all over the chassis with such small hitboxes.

Endo-Steel is self-explanatory, it gives you just enough space to add up heat sinks for Heat Efficiency 1.1

XL engine is mandatory for a high-performance Cicada, and it shouln't be lower than 300 power ratio, otherwise that Cicada is nothing but a free kill.

13 Double Heat sinks is just enough for Light-Hunting and Hit-and-Run tactics, since Cicada will barely be able to output constant fire anyway while runnning full speed ahead, even with perfect aim.

Large Laser is group 1 and 4 Medium Lasers is group 2. Large laser is used to wither down Heavy and Assault armor on approach range, well fit to disarm and cripple them, while Medium Lasers are Secondary damage group, also used for hunting Lights and Mediums with flawless Arms aiming. Medium lasers can be changed for Small Pulse Lasers if you have some aiming problems against Lights, for a price of closer approach on more dangerous heavier mech required to use them.

Cicada 2B possess a considerable benefit from 2A by having her Side-Torsos entirely empty for heat-sinks loading, while Arms are considerably easier to track Lights with. General difference between them is that 2A is weaker against Lights and better against heavier opponents. If you have no intentions of using anything heavier than MPLs, then 2A is better choice. 2B cannot either pack the same fire-stability or damage output of 2A, but it's more versatile and rounded against different opponent mechs.

My best performance on her were yesterday on Caustic Valley, with 837 damage total, 4 kills and 3 assists, hunting down a Jenner, overthrowing Hunchback 1v1 and hit-and-run backstabbing two Atlas mechs with alpha-strikes, being the LMS (last man standing).

3C modification is only viable for 4x AC2 build with Tag or Laser to further help your aim, to disrupt enemy fire support mechs from long distances. Advanced Zoom module is also mandatory for that setup. It would needed to fire directly into enemy cockpit with even greater chance for critical hit, than LB 10-X. Even if you cant hit into the cockpit directly, constant barrages of AC2 rounds with make direct-fire aiming very troublesome, especially for PPC or Gauss boats.

3M modification is a good choice for AC10 build, much like 2A. 1 Ballistic slot instead of 2 Energy slots makes her even better against heavier opponents, but even more weak against Lights. Since there's always 2A available, while 3M is very expensive, I would prefer 3C variant instead of 3M.

Ravens are stock-determined Light-hunters. Being Light instead of Medium means they're harder to hit, but 5 tons cap difference not allowing to use all weapon slots to use against heavier opponents efficiently, and Engine limitations makes them slower than Cicadas in any given scenario. They are also possess wider variety of weapons slots, thus making it harder to manage Weapon Groups, unless u have a 4-5 button mouse or Joystick to handle them, unlike Jenners or Commandos that are either Energy, MIssile or Energy/Missile variants, with left/right buttons covering the setup. At the same time, Engine limitation allows to install heavier weapon layout that tears other Light mechs apart. For the same reason, Ravens are extremely efficient backup unit to cover your heavy teammates againt Light harassment and backstabbing. Jenners and Commandos are stronger in stock layouts, but weaker than Raven as long, as you can afford upgrading it into versatile weapon platform.

3L modification possess full Electronic Warfare kit, which is:
1.) TAG - laser pointer, making friendly LRM more accurate as long as target is kept spotted with it.
2.) NARC - dumbfire missile, that marks the target for similar goal. Unlike TAG, NARC also makes SRMs to track themselves into marked targets and doesn't require to hold aim into it, but it's effect is temporary and it's ammo is even heavier than AC20 shells.
3.) Guardian ECM suite is protective Electronic Counter-Measures kit, that disrupts opponents targeting systems on friendly mechs in short range (180 meters radius by default). It denies target lock, meaning it's impossible to acquire location or target tracking of LRM or SSRM into protected targets, and TAG/NARC can only deny that protection partially. N/A at the moment.
4.) Beagle Active Probe is a complete reverse of the latter. BAP allows to track enemies under GECMS, hidden by obstacles or even powered-off mechs in a radius of the effect. N/A at the moment.

Edited by DivineEvil, 13 November 2012 - 01:07 AM.