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[Videos] Using An 3X Ac2 Dragon To Stomp Faces


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#41 Valder

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:18 PM

View PostGeneralArmchair, on 07 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:


The easiest way to throw the maximum number of rounds down range in the shortest amount of time is to simply keep the 3 ac/2's on group fire. Traditionally chain firing can save you some heat...but not when going full dakka mode. The dakka effect looks impressive, but isn't doing anything to help your damage output rate. Staggered fire also would normally cause screenshake, but since they effectively removed screenshake recently.....

You might want a secondary weapon group set to chain fire so that you can throttle down your rate of fire if you start overheating.

I am shooting them on group fire all the time in every video, dunno if you read that. The cool downs are just staggered so it looks like chainfire. So it's always producing max fire+heat. Then I have two on individual triggers so I can shoot 1, 2, or 3 at a time depending on the situation. I can also stagger them to shoot in 'simulated chainfire' or not stagger them to do more damage focused on a single point depending on what I'm trying to do.

And the cockpit shake for them is still pretty substantial. It's LRMs that lost shake.

#42 GeneralArmchair

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

View PostValder, on 07 November 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

I am shooting them on group fire all the time in every video, dunno if you read that. The cool downs are just staggered so it looks like chainfire. So it's always producing max fire+heat. Then I have two on individual triggers so I can shoot 1, 2, or 3 at a time depending on the situation. I can also stagger them to shoot in 'simulated chainfire' or not stagger them to do more damage focused on a single point depending on what I'm trying to do.

And the cockpit shake for them is still pretty substantial. It's LRMs that lost shake.

Max fire + heat is accomplished by firing all 3 simultaneously.

edit:
You're burst achieves the same output over time and it certainly is visually impressive. But if a person merely wants to match your damage output, all they need to do is make use of the default firing group.

Edited by GeneralArmchair, 07 November 2012 - 10:25 PM.


#43 Krrr8or

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:24 PM

Too bad they are removing cockpit shake upon being hit. I have a feeling your build will not look so appealing after that change.

#44 Valder

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:26 PM

View PostGeneralArmchair, on 07 November 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:


Max fire + heat is accomplished by firing all 3 simultaneously.

Not exactly. Max fire is achieved simply by using group fire or using 3 triggers held down at the same time to simulate group fire. It has nothing to do if the fire simultaneously or not, as long as you're using group fire, because you can stagger the recycle times and they'll still fire at max speed individually.

View PostKrrr8or, on 07 November 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Too bad they are removing cockpit shake upon being hit. I have a feeling your build will not look so appealing after that change.

You're right, if cockpit shake is taken out it will not be able to brawl. Just support and scout. But I haven't heard of them removing it, just the bug that removed it from LRMs.

Edited by Valder, 07 November 2012 - 10:30 PM.


#45 Valder

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:39 PM

View PostSephlock, on 07 November 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

"There are MANY creative ways to set your triggers to circumvent this, so use one."

Name them.

Dear god, is there no one reading any of the other posts?....

You can set up 3 triggers each with a single AC2, and hold down 1, 2, or 3. Fires at %100 speed.

You can set up 2 triggers, one with 2 in chainfire and the second with the 3rd AC2. Hold down both triggers. Fires at about %80-85 of max speed. Good if you don't have 15 or 16 double heatsinks.

You can set up 3 triggers, 1 with all 3 AC2's on group fire, 1 with a single AC2, and the third with another single AC2. You can either hold the first trigger and fire them all at once at %100 speed, or you can quickly bump trigger 2, then bump trigger 3, then hold trigger 1 down. This will make it chainfire at max speed by using group fire with staggered recycle times and shoots at %100 speed.


Anything else I can repost for you over and over?

#46 GeneralArmchair

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:55 PM

View PostValder, on 07 November 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Not exactly. Max fire is achieved simply by using group fire or using 3 triggers held down at the same time to simulate group fire. It has nothing to do if the fire simultaneously or not, as long as you're using group fire, because you can stagger the recycle times and they'll still fire at max speed individually.

No. It is exactly the maximum rate of fire.

Pull the trigger once and hold it down. With that trigger pull you fire 3 rounds. The exact instant the weapon gets off cooldown, the three weapons will fire again. There is no downtime, no delay. You are literally emptying your ammo bins at the maximum possible rate.

If you look at the big picture, you also fire your ac2's at the maximum rate of fire, except you jump through some hoops to offset the start times of weapon 2 and weapon 3. For a short period every cycle, you are most certainly lagging behind the alpha strike. But that delay is mostly negligible. Over time, you are also throwing rounds down range at the maximum rate. Your technique matches the rate of fire of holding down alpha strike, but never exceeds it. No, DPS isn't the problem you have to worry about. Staggering your fire has a much different problem.

You need to accurately place 3x as many shots on target. With an alpha, your shots are pretty much guaranteed to all strike the same location. Comparatively, it takes significantly more effort to place each of the three shots in your burst into the same section. This is why headcapper 6x PPC awesomes alpha strike rather than chain fire. If you want to hit a section with 6 ppcs, it is MUCH easier to throw them all into one basket and make one good shot than to make the same shot six times in a row.

There are some reasons to stagger fire.

1: If an alpha would overkill a target (this is the only time you would stagger fire in some old xwing games. Tie fighters folded easy). 1 really doesn't apply here in MWO because mechs are far more resilient than tie-fighters.
2: To "shake up the enemy" with screenshake by placing the weapon fire times equidistant on the cycle. Minimizing the time between screenshakes.
3: To level out your heat generation.


So yeah, your burst looks visually impressive. Which is cool. Great for vids. But it does nothing to increase your damage output rate. If anything, it improves enemy survivability by reducing your capability to place all three rounds on a single section.

Edited by GeneralArmchair, 07 November 2012 - 10:57 PM.


#47 Valder

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:07 PM

View PostGeneralArmchair, on 07 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:


No. It is exactly the maximum rate of fire.

Pull the trigger once and hold it down. With that trigger pull you fire 3 rounds. The exact instant the weapon gets off cooldown, the three weapons will fire again. There is no downtime, no delay. You are literally emptying your ammo bins at the maximum possible rate.

If you look at the big picture, you also fire your ac2's at the maximum rate of fire, except you jump through some hoops to offset the start times of weapon 2 and weapon 3. For a short period every cycle, you are most certainly lagging behind the alpha strike. But that delay is mostly negligible. Over time, you are also throwing rounds down range at the maximum rate. Your technique matches the rate of fire of holding down alpha strike, but never exceeds it. No, DPS isn't the problem you have to worry about. Staggering your fire has a much different problem.

You need to accurately place 3x as many shots on target. With an alpha, your shots are pretty much guaranteed to all strike the same location....

...So yeah, your burst looks visually impressive. Which is cool. Great for vids. But it does nothing to increase your damage output rate. If anything, it improves enemy survivability by reducing your capability to place all three rounds on a single section.


Aha, I see what you're saying now. I actually switch between the two depending on the situation. Off the top of my head you can see me using simultaneous group fire in the third video I posted, shooting at a 2x AC5 Hunchback's hunch in the cave. I only use this when I want to do a ton of point damage and my enemy is moving really slowly relative to me. Yes, I agree that putting three rounds into the same spot is the most effective way of quickly killing something. But, it's also the easiest way to miss 3 rounds at once. If my opponent is moving quickly, I much prefer to stagger the rounds because if one misses I can compensate very quickly. I'm much better at compensation to focus on an area when I can see impacts every 6th of a second as opposed to every half second, so I personally miss less.

But, that's all semantics that is going to differ from pilot to pilot.

Edit: Thinking about it, it's also easier for me to cockpit people using the stagger fire. It's so difficult to hit the cockpit, having a round searching for the hitbox every 6th second lets me find that hitbox quicker.

Edited by Valder, 07 November 2012 - 11:11 PM.


#48 Valder

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:04 AM

View PostOdins Fist, on 07 November 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:


.
Like My Centurion CN9-AL that goes 5 kills 2 assists, and over 1000 damage with "NO" LRM or AMS...
Yeah pure Garbage..
.
.
Posted Image

Never seen that before. What's in it?

#49 verybad

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:29 AM

I'm thinking the Jagermech will make a 4 AC-2 build viable in the game. Also spreading those cannons across 2 arms.

The Dakka will be Uber!

#50 Valder

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:49 AM

View Postverybad, on 08 November 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

I'm thinking the Jagermech will make a 4 AC-2 build viable in the game. Also spreading those cannons across 2 arms.

The Dakka will be Uber!

Yeah, I can't wait.

#51 CodeNameValtus

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:23 PM

Kraken would like to have a word with you!

10x UAC/2's +4x MG's for the lulz. If you set up 2 guns on 5 buttons, you know what kind of screen shake and DPS you could manage?

While you've settled on getting maximum fire rate out of 3x AC/2's, this thing could put 2-3 in each group and get the same result, only with more point damage. Of course, it's meager 4 tons of ammo would have to be supplemented by removing the useless MG's and their ammo, and probably adding a bunch more DHS as 10DHS isn't enough in MWO compared to TT to keep that fire support cool. It just makes me drool. I've been a long time supporter of 3x AC/2's over AC/10's or combo UAC/5 & AC/5 or even 2x UAC/5's (with a macro to unjam it's not AS bad, but still presents temporary luls in DPS)...

All those other builds eshew the screen shake you can get by constant AC/2 peppering. I love this build and approve this message!

#52 Valder

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:56 PM

View PostCodeNameValtus, on 08 November 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Kraken would like to have a word with you!

10x UAC/2's +4x MG's for the lulz. If you set up 2 guns on 5 buttons, you know what kind of screen shake and DPS you could manage?

While you've settled on getting maximum fire rate out of 3x AC/2's, this thing could put 2-3 in each group and get the same result, only with more point damage. Of course, it's meager 4 tons of ammo would have to be supplemented by removing the useless MG's and their ammo, and probably adding a bunch more DHS as 10DHS isn't enough in MWO compared to TT to keep that fire support cool. It just makes me drool. I've been a long time supporter of 3x AC/2's over AC/10's or combo UAC/5 & AC/5 or even 2x UAC/5's (with a macro to unjam it's not AS bad, but still presents temporary luls in DPS)...

All those other builds eshew the screen shake you can get by constant AC/2 peppering. I love this build and approve this message!

10x AC2's = love.

#53 0d1n

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:12 PM

Guessing this mech needs XL engine, probably Endo and/or FF as well?

#54 BLeeD

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:40 PM

lol , well in my book your just standing straight and firing , not much movment at all you need to work at 45 degree angles so they cant shot you when you are shooting them

#55 Valder

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:52 PM

View Post0d1n, on 09 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

Guessing this mech needs XL engine, probably Endo and/or FF as well?

Yeah, XL300 and Endo, no FF.

#56 ripperzipper

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:28 AM

Ever given the LB10-X AC a go on the dragon? Its a very fun weapon and makes light mechs cry tears of blood.

#57 0d1n

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:49 PM

View Postripperzipper, on 10 November 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

Ever given the LB10-X AC a go on the dragon? Its a very fun weapon and makes light mechs cry tears of blood.


Back when tackle-dragons were all the rage yea, so much fun to slide into a Jenner then shoot him in the cockpit while he flops on the ground like a fish.

#58 Valder

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:46 PM

View Postripperzipper, on 10 November 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

Ever given the LB10-X AC a go on the dragon? Its a very fun weapon and makes light mechs cry tears of blood.

I prefer the AC10, personally. Same damage, but focused instead of being spread between 10 pellets, and only 1 ton+1 crit slot larger.

#59 Aldan

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:47 PM

Hey OP....I tried this build and man it's not working....I put 80 rounds into an afk hunchback and he didn't die...I don't know what's up...can you list everything in the build? Or have you updated it?

#60 Valder

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:32 AM

View PostAldan, on 10 November 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Hey OP....I tried this build and man it's not working....I put 80 rounds into an afk hunchback and he didn't die...I don't know what's up...can you list everything in the build? Or have you updated it?

Hm, 80 rounds is 160 damage... should kill about anything if you put it into a single spot. I'll pm you build info.





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