5 replies to this topic

[Evex]

I was reading up on Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous armor, and I actually have a few questions about them.

1. Do you need to place endo steel and ferro fibrous into each part of the mech for it to have a complete endo steel internal frame, ferro fibrous armor?

2. Since both Endo Steel and Ferro Fiburous armor each take up 14 critical slots. Will we see mechs with both technologies, or will we have to choose between a lighter frame, or stronger armor?

3. When endo steel mentions it halves the weight of the chassis, on the record sheet is this referencing the battlemechs internal structure?

4. Ferro Fiburous armor increases the strength of armor by 12% for IS battlemechs, so if my battlemech has an armor factor of 160 or 10 tons then the ferro fiburous equivalent is 11.2 tons ?

[Stormwolf]

Evex, on 19 April 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

I was reading up on Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous armor, and I actually have a few questions about them.

1. Do you need to place endo steel and ferro fibrous into each part of the mech for it to have a complete endo steel internal frame, ferro fibrous armor?

No, you only need to place your endo and ferro where you can fit it.

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2. Since both Endo Steel and Ferro Fiburous armor each take up 14 critical slots. Will we see mechs with both technologies, or will we have to choose between a lighter frame, or stronger armor?

I can't really think of any IS mechs right now that have both, but most IS designs tend to favor endo over ferro.
The Clans however have a more compact version of endo and ferro and will often use both (the Mad Cat/Timber Wolf has this for instance).

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3. When endo steel mentions it halves the weight of the chassis, on the record sheet is this referencing the battlemechs internal structure?

Yes, endosteel is essentially used for the "skeleton" of the mech.

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4. Ferro Fiburous armor increases the strength of armor by 12% for IS battlemechs, so if my battlemech has an armor factor of 160 or 10 tons then the ferro fiburous equivalent is 11.2 tons ?

160 points = 10 tons standard armor
160 points = 9 tons ferro armor (with one extra point of armor to spare)

You can play around with those stats with Solaris Skunkwerks:
http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/

Just download the latest editor

Edited by Stormwolf, 19 April 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[EDMW CSN]

1. Yes.
Also once Endo-steel has being set, endo steel criticals should not be allowed to moved around.
FF armor criticals can be moved around though since it is not part of the internal structure.

2. There are mechs with both technologies. Usually of lighter tonnage. BTZ-F3 Blitzkrieg and the COM-5S Commando for example. Larger mechs will need more critical space as well, so the chance of getting both tech on 1 mech is lower.

3. Yes. Basically if you are in an Atlas, your normal internal structure weighs 10 tons.
Endo-steel cuts it to 5 tons. Giving you 5 tons free for your own use.

4. No. FF armor does NOT increase your mech maximum armor points. There is a cap on mech armor which depends on the tonnage of your mech.

For example an Atlas has 19 tons of armor, FF armor gives the same amount of protection for 17 tons.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 19 April 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[Skylarr]

Chassis:
Description

The Chassis of a Support Vehicle, Combat Vehicle or BattleMech is what the rest of it is built around or inside. Similar to the Human Skeleton a units chassis has a major influence on the shape, structure and form that a unit will take.

Internal Structure

High Technology - Age of War and Succession Wars Technology
Generally, Standard Type Chassis consisted of a Foamed Aluminum Core covered with various composite materiels, wrapped in silicon-carbide fibers, and clad in Titanium-Alloyed Steel ^[1]. Standard Internal Structure can be formed on a planets surface without requiring (expensive and vulnerable) orbital facilities.
Endo-Steel

Advanced Technology - Star League and post-3050 Inner Sphere Technology
Hyper-Advanced Technology - Clan and post-3065 Inner Sphere Technology
Endomorphic-Steel Chassis are formed in orbital facilities. The Alluminum Core is foamed in Zero-G and is bulkier than that of Standard Internal Structure, covered with various composite materiels that are mixed and hardened in zero-G, and clad in a Titanium-Steel Alloy formed in Zero-G.

Developed by the Terran Hegemony in 2487, Endo Steel was designed especially for use in BattleMech skeletons. Using zero-G manufacturing techniques that uniformly mix high-density steel with lower-density titanium and aluminum, the process produces a metal twice as strong per unit of weight as standard skeleton materials thus halving the weight of the chassis, but at an increase in overall bulk (Inner Sphere Endo Steel takes up 14 critical slots, 7 for Clan).
The orbital facilities that produced these weight saving chassis were prime targets during the First Succession War, rendering the technology extinct in the Inner Sphere outside of the halls of ComStar by the Second Succession War. Thanks to the Helm Memory Core and examples from the advanced 'Mechs ComStar provided as part of Operation Rosebud, the Draconis Combine regained the ability to produce Endo Steel by 3035^[2] with the other Successor States quickly following suit. The Clans however never lost the technology and eventually refined it, halving its bulk compared to Star League era Endo Steel.
While the weight savings for Endo Steel are greater than those saved by Ferro-Fibrous armor, its use is hampered by the extremely low number of orbital factories in existence, significantly driving up costs due to low availability. Further, as it makes up the skeleton of a 'Mech, adding it to existing 'Mechs generally requires lengthy factory level refits, and in general makes field repair more difficult than standard skeletons.

Armor - BattleMechs & Vehicles



Description

Introduced in 2470 by the Terran Hegemony^[1]. In the BattleTech universe, armor is ablative in nature. This means that it is generally destroyed or blown off when hit, but in the process of doing so, it absorbs enormous energies, protecting the unit it is mounted on. While powerful blows will still rock a vehicle, there will be little, if any, internal damage as long as armor plating still remains. Armor-piercing rounds do exist for certain weapons, but they require a higher technology level and cost more. As a result, destroying a 'Mech requires either immense firepower, concentrated fire on a vulnerable location, or a lucky hit.
Standard BattleMech armor is composed of several layers providing various degrees of protection and support. The first layer is extremely strong steel, the result of crystal alignment and radiation treatment, which is also very brittle. The second layer is a ceramic, cubic boron nitride, which combined with a web of artificial diamond fibers acts as a backstop to the steel layer. These two layers rest atop a titanium alloy honeycomb structure which provides support, and a layer of self-sealing polymer sealant which allows for space and underwater operations.^[2]
Noting the ablative nature of the armor, most vehicle designers have designed the armor for quick repairs on most units. In game terms, armor is repaired at the rate of 15 minutes per point of armor^[3]. Players familiar with BattleTech video games —like MechWarrior 3 and 4— might be used to even faster repairs by mobile field bases (where a damaged 'Mech is apparently repaired in moments), but the computer games represent repairs differently than the tabletop game.

Ferro-Fibrous





Ferro-Fibrous armor

Description

Ferro-Fibrous armor (FF) is a special type of armor used by vehicles and BattleMechs. Utilizing a weave of ferro-steel, ferro-titanium, and diamond weave fibers which boosts the tensile strength of the plating^[1], it provides more protection per ton than standard armor (12% for Inner Sphere FF, 20% for Clan FF), but takes up more space on the 'Mech or vehicle (14 for inner sphere, 7 for clan). The maximum amount of protection is not changed; merely the weight of armor required to achieve that level of protection. For a unit which already has maximum armor protection, it is therefore considered a weight-saving measure, at the cost of critical space. The weight savings for Endo Steel are greater than those saved by ferro-fibrous armor, but it is more costly and obviously more difficult to repair or add as an upgrade to a 'Mech.
First developed by the Terran Hegemony in 2571,^[2] Ferro-Fibrous armor was lost to the Inner Sphere during the Succession Wars. The Draconis Combine was the first to re-create it in 3040.^[3] Later, the Free Worlds League and Lyran Alliance would develop Light and Heavy versions of Ferro-Fibrous armor.^[4]




All vehicle built during the Star League ERA Would have both Endo and Ferro. Where the Clans retained the knowlegde and improved upon it. the Inner sphere, thru centries of war, lost the ability to produce Endo and Ferro(except ComStar, but, thats another stry).

Ferro and Endo was only seen in Mech found in Brian Caches fidden through out the Inner Sphere. As you can see from above that knowlegde was rediscovered in the '30s and '40s. They were only placed on certain Mechs.

[osito]

I like endo-steel and ff armor, But they are expensive to use and hard to repair. In cannon they cant patch ff armor the patch is standard armor. Then you will have to replace the whole section after the battle. That's if i remember correctly. Endo-steel is also hard to repair in the field. So my thinking is in game if you have either it will be more expensive to repair your mech. How the devs balance this is what i am waiting to see.

[guardiandashi]

one thing I will point out is that if the devs go with the tabletop pricing and construction system I can tell you that as a merc I would always much prefer endosteel over ff (ferro-fibrous armor) for the simple fact that in the long run its a lot cheaper to use.

in the propotional sense ferro fibrous is cheaper than endosteel as you will see in a moment.

cost
std internal 400 X unit tonnage
endosteel 1600 X unit tonnage

armor std 10,000 x armor tons
armor ff 20,000 x armor tons

so if we look at a heavy (assault mech) such as an atlas going from a std internal structure 400 X 100 = 40,000 cbills to an endosteel one 1600 X 100= 160,000 cbills is kind of pricy a price change of ~120,000

but going from std armor 19 x 10,000 = 190,000 to ~17 tons of armor 17 x 20,000 = 340,000 cbills of armor or a change of 150,000
and then you get into the fact that armor is going to be damaged and need to be repaired/replaced every battle, if damage never actually gets through the armor, then the internal never needs to be repaired or (replaced)