7 replies to this topic

[Nighthound]

1. Artemis :
- Why :
The way Artemis works now is not according to the rules. If I upgrade to Artemis it costs me 750.000 C-Bills (500k for Downgrade), whether I have 1 or 6 or even no Launcher at all. So I have to pay for just the Possibility of me equipping Missiles. I'm sorry but that's not really well thought out. With FF, Endo and DHS I can understand the price tag, because you (nearly) need to rebuild your whole Mech, but Artemis is just a piece of equipment placed alongside a Launcher.
The second thing is that If I upgrade (or Downgrade), I upgrade all Missile Launchers at the same time. This is wrong! Yes, if you add Artemis to 1 LRM Launcher, all LRM Launchers must be equipped with Artemis and same goes for SRM. But according to the rules I could have 1 LRM with Artemis and 1 SRM without Artemis and vice versa. With your System I can't.

- How :
I would create 2 Upgrades. "Artemis LRM" and "Artemis SRM" for 0 C-Bills (or make it a really small number). What they do should be easy to figure out . You already replaced the Ammo and the Launchers have 1 Slot and 1 Ton added, so you just need to put them into the 2 categories (LRM & SRM), and make the Launchers cost more. 1 Artemis System would cost 130.000 C-Bills per TT rules, so just add 260,000 C-Bills per Launcher using Artemis. Please don't say you can't do that.


2. Ammo :
- Why :
The Price of Ammo is a balance mechanism, no doubt about that. But your current rearm system is to easy to exploit. The initial cost of Ammo shouldn't be the final cost. If I just need to grind my way the most expensive stuff I can dream up and then drive that without penalty, it becomes meaningless. You want to give players a 75% discount? Fine! But don't give away 75% for free and then ask for the full price for the rest.
Imagine yourself walking into a grocery store and whatever you have in your cart, 75% of that is free .... would you pay for the rest or would you just take the 75% and go home?
There is no difference between careful aiming and don't wasting shots, and plastering the landscape with wasted ammo at the moment. I feel like I'm not being rewarded for conserving my Ammo.

- How :
There are actually 2 ways do it right and fairly. Either you do it like you already do with Equipment, that is paying only a fraction (25%) of what is damaged (used), or just reduce Ammo Cost to 25% and have everyone pay for every shot they used (100% of 25%).

Shouldn't be too hard to implement.

With kind regards
Nighthound

[Karl Streiger]

Considering that you has to use Artemis Guided LRM for direct and indirect fire as well...a modified ammo pricing should be used.
I think 45.000 C-Bilss per ton of Artemis ammo would be a good start.

However as Nighthound suggested ...wasting ammunition should never be an option. Every shot you use - should have its cost.
I think 25% is to low.

[Deadoon]

I like to think of the ammo sets as not just the ammo, but also the loading and transport systems for the ammo, machine gun ammo is in simple chain feeds while more exotic ammo and explosives must be carried carefully, in extra protection to load it into the launcher quickly, the waste is transported back and placed in the bottom of the container, so resupplying should cost less than the whole system.

Edited by Deadoon, 19 November 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Sounds good so far.
I have some cut throughs clan lrm racks in mind.They they looked like chain feed too.
Although i'm not really sure about it.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 19 November 2012 - 06:08 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

The current system seems to be best utilized with more Launchers in play. If you have no Launchers why would anyone ever spend 750K, ever. If you have 4 Launchers, then the cost per is 187K per. More Launchers, better price for Artemis. Ammo is what it is. A specialized ordinance for a specialized system. Special stuff is already pricey. XL, ES, FF, DHS etc. etc.

If they allowed single launchers to have Artemis, then player would need to carry multiple types of ammo. Imagine the outrage of having to carry 5 tons of Artemis ammo AND 5 tons of regular when currently you only need 5 tons for all the Launchers no matter their type...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 19 November 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Skyfaller]

Nighthound, on 08 November 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

2. Ammo :
- Why :
The Price of Ammo is a balance mechanism, no doubt about that. But your current rearm system is to easy to exploit. The initial cost of Ammo shouldn't be the final cost. If I just need to grind my way the most expensive stuff I can dream up and then drive that without penalty, it becomes meaningless. You want to give players a 75% discount? Fine! But don't give away 75% for free and then ask for the full price for the rest.
Imagine yourself walking into a grocery store and whatever you have in your cart, 75% of that is free .... would you pay for the rest or would you just take the 75% and go home?
There is no difference between careful aiming and don't wasting shots, and plastering the landscape with wasted ammo at the moment. I feel like I'm not being rewarded for conserving my Ammo.

- How :
There are actually 2 ways do it right and fairly. Either you do it like you already do with Equipment, that is paying only a fraction (25%) of what is damaged (used), or just reduce Ammo Cost to 25% and have everyone pay for every shot they used (100% of 25%).

The ammo costs are retardedly high as they are. I just came from a map and saw 110k re-arm bill for my two LRM15+artemis launchers. Fired 800 missiles.

So... I look at the thing and figure... urr durr... ill gladly trade 2 tons of armor for 2 more tons of ammo and just re-arm at 75% because there is no way in hell im burning all my income just buying missiles that for a catapult A1 is mandatory to have in bulk.

If anything, they should just make the artemis be expensive to equip and leave the damn ammo to cost the same as the previous ammo.

Edited by Skyfaller, 19 November 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Thats the problem with doubled cost for artemis the efficency of the system should be increased... do you remember when the trajactory was broken...when lrm would do the same damage...but you have to rearm 100%...the spam wouldn't have been that strong. Killed 8 Mechs...used 8tons of ammo...= 240.K Cbills for win and 480.000 for rearm - sounds fair doesn't it? Even with 8 tons of standard LRM it would have been 240 K C-Bills.

When you consider Deadonns idea...missile cost may be adjusted to cost 15.000 to 30.000 per ton.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 20 November 2012 - 01:08 AM.

[Skyfaller]

Karl Streiger, on 20 November 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

When you consider Deadonns idea...missile cost may be adjusted to cost 15.000 to 30.000 per ton.

It would make a lot more sense to have the launchers cost a lot more and leave the ammo cheap. An LRM 15 costs 350k .... thats just silly considering a large laser is 200k.

Costs should be:
LRM5= 500k
LRM10= 800k
LRM15= 1 mill
LRM20= 1.5 mill

and have the LRM ammo cost be really,really cheap.