162 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

Results of 15 pub games done in the last 3 hours. Feel free to draw your own conclusions,
Hopefully this thread doesn't degenerate into the usual "learn2play! team game means premades vs pubs! you are lying, premades are rare!" trolling.

Names in screenshots censored in accordance with the forum's no naming policy.

Note : Most of these were not full 8 man premades, they usually had at least one or two pugs mixed in. Click on images for full size res.

1.Premade, refused to identify themselves as a premade, multiple lights rushed our base and capped before we could go back while several assaults/heavies acted as a diversion



2.Premade, refused to identify themselves as a premade, recognised two premade names from the forums, mass LRM boats with TAG and one atlas who rushed our entire team just to focus fire me but failed (you know who you are). Didn't manage to screencap in time.

3.Premade, refused to identify themselves as a premade, at least 5 LRM boats that all focused fired on one target at a time



4.Unknown, both teams largely avoided each other but we managed to win via ninja cap



5.Pug, everyone rambos except for half of our team, other team loses because they charge in one by one, screenshot accidentally overwritten

6.Premade, identified themselves as a premade, streakcat + JJ abuse along with the usual LRM boats



7.Premade, advertised their unit website at start of the game



8.Premade, refused to identify themselves as a premade, 7 jenners/cicadas boating small lasers/streaks vs trial ravens, started trash talking at the end of the match (usual learn2play insults)



9.Premade, identified themselves as a premade



10.Premade, claimed not to be a premade, multiple LRM boats standing next to each other all focus firing on the same target. Lost to our pub team when several fast assaults managed to get close to their LRM boats.



11.Premade, refused to identify themselves as a premade, 5 light mechs rushed our base and capped before our lights could go back



12.Premade, refused to identify themselves as a premade, had at least 5 yen lo wangs



13.Premade, refused to identify themselves as a premade, used a cicada to distract our team's lights while the rest of their lights capped our base



14.Premade, identified themselves as a premade, claimed to only be using stock configs although i saw at least 4 custom configs. One pug on their team was really happy when he found out that he had gotten on a premade team by luck.



15.Pub, free for all

Edited by Jun Watarase, 01 November 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

you know, unedited screencaps are better for credibility.

Many "premades" will recognize the premade players... and may beable to support your clame Jun. But until then, you can say whatever you want.

[IceSerpent]

Are you basically saying that a team that says "we are not a premade" has to be a premade just because they either had Yen-Lo-Wangs or outplayed you?

[Elon]

I had runs when we capped enemy base with several mechs. No premades, just using chat, what's your point?

[HumptyWasPushed]

How many of these were partial premades? How many just had pugs that listened to orders? As for #4, you must have been a premade b/c your team capped with some diversions.

[Lucky 7]

You know what.. the focus fire stuff.. I was in a PUG today where I took the liberty and effort to take command of the team.
I was blessed with a group of players who actually carried out what I told them to do (which was of course very basic due to the nature of text based comms).
We as a group of course focused fire then because I was calling out the targets in chat.
So your conclusion that focus fire can only be done by a premade is flawed to say the least.

Cheers all

Edited by Lucky 7, 01 November 2012 - 10:35 AM.

[Barnaby Jones]

Your perception =/= reality.

In most if your examples you cite you "know" they are a premade based on recognizing names, your ability to count lrm boats, the fact that boats are colocated or extensive use of tag.

When I am on and none of the people I group with are I play solo. (Name recognition busted)

The number of boats has nothing to do with premades, as most groups are smart enough not to run 3+, let alone ignoring how you determine what a boat is with so many lrms on trial mechs (number of boats busted)

There are some very specific optimal boat locations and it doesnt take long to find them, and I use them when boating regardless of being in a group or not. And a good group would actually spread their boats out a bit so as to alow defense if each other rather than depending on the meds to so it (caustic d4 and d6 hills come to mind)(colocation busted).

Tag. I run it on my scouts and my boats regardless of grouping of not. I find the tagging actually focuses non premades better as all the puggers scramble to make use of it, and the groups realize that a long term solid lock is better than a short duration fast lock. (Tag =/= premade)

Just because you percieve the other team is a premade doesnt make it so, and without factual information (such as people voluntarilly saying they are in a group) all you are doing is guessing the reason you lost is because the other team choose to coordinate.

[Satet]

Lucky 7, on 01 November 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

who actually carried out what I told them to do

"This game wouldn't be so bad if everyone just did exactly what I told them to do."

Thank you for doing some actual research OP. Legendaries seem to be defending this, but your screenshots tell a different story. 10 displayed defeats out of 15 games seems about right.

Edited by Satet, 01 November 2012 - 10:39 AM.

[Shrinkmaster]

claiming that some guys are a premade because you lost or they focused fired.

seems legit.

[Jun Watarase]

HumptyWasPushed, on 01 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

How many of these were partial premades? How many just had pugs that listened to orders? As for #4, you must have been a premade b/c your team capped with some diversions.

Two teams avoiding each other to cap is not a diversion.

I suspect you don't pug at all. Feel free to try launching a few games and getting pugs to focus fire the correct target or half you team to base rush with you. I can pretty much guarantee you will be ignored most of the time.

I can predict with almost 100% certainty that your next follow up post will be claiming that you pug exclusively and never have any problems getting a team of randoms to function almost as well as a premade. You will also probably post your stats showing a higher than 5:1 K:D ratio and a 95%+ win ratio and claim these are from pugging exclusively.

I spent all 15 matches giving orders with both text and the commander screen and in most cases, my team couldn't even keep targets locked and was just randomly cycling through targets, focus firing with pubs is pretty much a **** dream unless you get lucky. And there were always a few rambos. In the match with 7 light mechs, my team of mostly trial ravens simply couldn't compete even though they were trying their best. The difference in firepower was just too large.

This thread also serves as a further example of the forum "gold effect".

Edited by Jun Watarase, 01 November 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[PyroDante]

On the last one, you won 8/3 I bet they thought you were a pre-made

[Barnaby Jones]

And what group intentionally tries to win by cap these days... party train to the base is most definitely a pug strat as the boredom it creates would not result in the group staying together long.

[Crimson Chaos]

If the other team asks if my PUG team if we are a premade, I always say yes because they tend to panic and are easier to kill. Works pretty well, but would skew your results. I'm sure others probably do this as well.

[PyroDante]

Coordination = premade - funny
Legendary Founder = premade - hilarious!

[LogicSol]

Once again, Jun uses his magic powers to determine that players beating him are premades.
Here is another thread for a data point that uses less questionable methods.
http://mwomercs.com/...do-it-for-them/

[Lucky 7]

Satet, on 01 November 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

"This game wouldn't be so bad if everyone just did exactly what I told them to do."

What the hell is wrong with you? I love this game even if it has it's flaws.
I also love it when I don't command in PUGs. I had a very nice commander in another drop (sadly I forgot the name.. as I would love to mention him here now).

But please go on and feel miserable about losing in a game and blame all on some phantom premades.

Cheers

[Ceribus]

What exactly is your reasoning for these being premades... 5 YLWs? if that was a premade it was really badly cordinated as for everyone focus firing a tagged unit thats just people following common sense, your kinda giving off a conspiracy theory vibe here.

[Aym]

Worth noting I am MORE likely to announce my House website before a match when I pug so it seems less braggadocio.

[Kraven Kor]

IceSerpent, on 01 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Are you basically saying that a team that says "we are not a premade" has to be a premade just because they either had Yen-Lo-Wangs or outplayed you?

More or less, yes.

If they focused fire (easier to do with VOIP, but not impossible otherwise...) they are a premade.

Lights rush base? Premade.

Jun - you may be right, but the evidence presented doesn't prove it.

I'll wait on PGI's numbers. If they ever release them...

[Angel of Annihilation]

I pugged a match last night, no coordination other than we just stuck together while the other team strung out all across the map. We managed 6 kills within the first 4 minutes. The 7th went down about a minute later and the majority of our team sautered into the enemies cap rather than chasing down the lone Jenner. Zero deaths our side.

End result looks a heck of alot like those screen caps of yours where people claim not to be premades.

Don't get me wrong, as a dedicated Pugger, there are times when premades are thick but that is only usually during the extreme prime hours. Other times you won't run into a premade more than once every ten battles. Also as a dedicated Pugger, I can't even count the number of wins my team has had that showed us taking out 6-8 enemy mechs with 0-2 losses on our side.

Now that being said, Premades are definately an issue in the randoms because even if you only run into 1 or 2 every 10 matches or so, those 1-2 matches are so lopsided you just want to quit playing. Also since unlike WoT, there is no way to tell if the enemy is grouped or not, every time they are part of a bad loss, it isn't that they and/or there team just sucked, it is because the other side must have been a premade. So until they make it so it can't be the fault of a premade, they are always going to be the boogieman that exists just for the sake of screwing over the Pugger.