45 replies to this topic

[Mike ONeal]

Borrowing books or movies from your local library is perfectly legal, and no one seems to have any moral qualms with it. But it seems to be pretty damn similar to piracy. Sure, the authors get paid for the work when the library buys the book, DVD, etc., but then again, the individual who uploads pirated content also has to initially buy a game or movie in order to copy it.

Of course, I don't exactly know how libraries work, but I'm fairly certain that they don't make enough money from taxes to pay royalties to every single author whose books they have copies of.

Ironicly this is one area where technology and copyright are fighting over, most libraries now offer E-books, and the publishers want to limit the number of times a digital copy can be lent to a person, not for any real reason since a file accessed 1000 times works the same as 1 time. But rather becuase the library would have to buy a new copy in a few years due to wear and tear on a physical copy of the book, this isn't protecting the integity of anything, only protecting the bottom line of the publishers.

Goverment hates theft... mainly b/c they hate the competition

[GrimFist]

Mike ONeal...

Library and piracy are not the same.


Libaries are there to help educate. Most of the books in a library are there for referece purposes. Books individuals would not normally be able to purchase. Granted, many libraries have expanded their reading list to include more than just the classics but many of the current or recent best sellers. To call a libary a theif is like calling GoodWill dumpster divers. I'm not saying the publshers don't want moe money of ebooks as that is the future and some items were not figured out before they were distributed.

Libraries are funded by tax dollars and community based organiztions. We just had one locally refuse to downsize and the town ponied up the money despite losing the state funds to keep it the way they want it.

Pirates are fuled by rum and the thought of booty and plunder..

We might want to think it's romantic but I happen to work for a top 10 software company and I condone violence against all pirates.

Seals shooting pirates is a good thing.

Force Recon calling in an airstrike on those running piracy rings for software would be a good thing.

Crossing that line and losing internet access for life or a few fingers is a good thing.

MechWarrior online allowing us to shoot virtual ppcs at the pirate piloted Urbie who's out of ammo would be an "AWESOME" thing... (just for that awesome guy).

Keeping it as Grim as I can.

[Belial]

I have "pirated" ONE thing on my life... I'll tell my "reasons" and leave it up to you guys, the jury, to decide if my actions were moral.

One of my favorite bands had a 4-way split album that came out only on vinyl. (They're black metal and for some reason every black metal musician except for me loves that format). This had been released well before I came to know them and was already sold out; there were no copies on Amazon or EBay due to an extremely limited release. Basically, those who have it weren't/aren't dumb enough to sell it off. Therefore, I hit my conscience with a mallet and got it from MediaFire (or some similar site, I forget which now). Upon doing so, I bought two albums of theirs off iTunes, even though I already had the real CD copies. This was to "make up" for, in the best method I could think of, stealing the album in the first place.

To speak in my own defence, I have never done it before or since, and I always purchase either hard copies of artists' CDs or directly from the bands in person at metal shows, where I know the money goes directly to the members, with no cut given to the record company.

[Punisher 1]

Ahem let me make my point clear ........................

YARRRR!


Of course everyone can choose a path that suits them and whatever convictions they feel free to choose. I for one will not or rarely limit myself in conducting certain actions to obtain whatever goal I deem necessary. There are lines I do not cross and some boundaries I respect.

But there was a time I wanted to visit a certain part of Africa and give a go at a certain sort of work, ya know just to spice things up. Unless you are strictly talking about the online sort of thing and then I'm a little disappointed because that’s too easy and does not involve allot of moral twisting. But whatever floats ur boat

Edited by Punisher_1, 19 April 2012 - 07:57 PM.

[Lauranis]

[Warning, lengthy]

Over the years the topic of piracy has come up as an issue many many times, and I have come to a pretty firm conclusion on the matter. At its heart Piracy is about money, software pirates either cant pay for a game because of limited funds, or wont for other reasons (disagreement with company policies, lack of confidence in the industries capability to provide a satisfactory produce, etc). On the other hands publishers, developers and governments try and eliminate it through a variety of means because of alleged lost income.

As someone who at one point was a prolific consumer of pirated software, and who is now, and for many years been a solely legal consumer of software products I feel I can discuss the situation from a very objective viewpoint. and so I present several scenarios for consideration:

Scenario 1:
A theoretical pirate, with no disposable income, installs and plays a game through illegitimate means. The Games Industry will claim that this is lost revenue due to him no longer being a potential customer. I counter that as the Pirate was incapable of paying for the game, that the games company in fact cannot be losing money. In fact at worse they can be gaining nothing, at best (if the game is of high quality) they gain a fan who might buy that product in future at a lower marked price (for instance if the game goes "gold"), or who might buy future games from the same developer and/or publisher when his life circumstances change.

The Games Industry see's piracy as a threat, and takes the stance that it loses them money, and thus institutes harsher and harsher anti-piracy measures. we have seen over the years everything from keycards, keycodes, limited installations, digital signatures, and now the advent of online services in an effort to counter piracy. The only one that has been remotely successful is the online services (i.e steam, origin etc). In night on 30 years of home video gaming, an effective measure against piracy is only now being found, but even then it only truly works for certain games, and third party software like Hamachi can help circumvent even these measures in many cases.

Scenario 2:
A Gamer, who previously purchased all games legally, is incensed by the continuing pervasiveness of online requirements for games (steam, origin, etc). He vows never to buy a game that requires an online connection to one of these services. Instead he opts to obtain pirate copies of the games, and thus we reach the same situation in scenario 1, where in the games industry does not lose money from the existence of piracy, as the user was not going to purchase from them anyway.

Scenario 3:
An older gamer, who has access to sufficient disposable income, but has lived through such times as the games market crash of the 1980's, the rise of the PC and the "mainstreaming" of gaming. In recent years he has had more and more trouble justifying the investment of a new game because of a perceived failings in contemporary games. perhaps he has been burned by his purchases more than once (AVP, Duke Nukem anyone?). He instead uses illegal sources for games, with the intent of "trialing" games for quality before purchase.

In this situation, again theoretically, the games company does not lose money. IF they are producing quality products, then the Gamer purchases them once he is satisfied. In fact, only the companies that are producing inferior products stand to lose, those that are unknown or are producing "unproven" concepts stand to gain through the essentially free advertising.

Bare in mind that Scenario 2 and 3 are products of the gaming industries own making, in scenario 2, there knee jerk response is the cause of the problem, and in Scenario 3 the constant rolling out of poorly designed, bug ridden, derivative tripe is the cause.

The 3 scenario's represent the most common reasons for piracy that I have encountered over the years, I am NOT saying that these reasons ethically justify the act of piracy, More recent developments in the games industry and communications technology have started to address these problems, the advent of true "always on" internet connections have made scenario 2 much, MUCH less of a problem, and the "free to play" revolution (of which our beloved Mechwarrior Online) deals with not only scenario 1 (everyone can play) but also scenario 3 (you can investigate the game extensively before investing, and further more invest as much as you feel a game is worth).

Remember as well that the entertainment industry's has cried foul about piracy for over 30 years, video piracy "threatened to destroy" the film industry, magnetic tapes the music industry, and disc copying the games industry in the 80's more recently napster, limewire and torrenting have also threatened to destroy the music, film and games industries again, yet somehow, they are making more money than ever, especially the games industry.

It's time piracy was viewed without the flame wars and hate mongering, and looked at in a by far more rational manner. in fact there are many in the games industry who are actively against copyright protection, Gas Powered Games patched out the DRM in supreme commander, and many indy developers (Mojang) have next to no issue with piracy.

I guess, well, the above is food for thought

[Paul Inouye]

While this could have been an interesting topic of discussion, piracy is illegal. Moral issues aside, it's illegal. We do not allow discussion of illegal activities on this site and hence I'll be closing this thread. There are too many self proclaimed instances of piracy in this thread I have no other choice but to close it.

Sorry folks.

p.s. I will get to the bottom of who deleted ******** from the profanity filter.