42 replies to this topic

[3rdworld]

I use them in my 4G if that's what your asking.

If you lose the hunch you are >90% battle ineffective, might as well be dead.

I think the survivability granted by the extra speed is greater than that granted by the lack of on XL.

[Johnny Reb]

I agree that FF armor is not a good idea on the Hunchie. Endo is always the go to upgrade. In fact the only chassis I use endo, FF, and DHS are in 2 of my 3 Cicada builds.

[Soulscour]

The xl on the 4G is viable only because when/if they take out the gauss/AC20 shoulder your ability is significantly reduced. I would not go xl on the 4SP because it IS still deadly without a shoulder, and I would not put a xl on the 4P because the light lasers on the shoulder dont require the extra weight advantage anyways. You have to ask yourself if your really need the free tonnage for such a large disadvantage.

[Rathe]

Soulscour, on 08 November 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

The xl on the 4G is viable only because when/if they take out the gauss/AC20 shoulder your ability is significantly reduced. I would not go xl on the 4SP because it IS still deadly without a shoulder, and I would not put a xl on the 4P because the light lasers on the shoulder dont require the extra weight advantage anyways. You have to ask yourself if your really need the free tonnage for such a large disadvantage.

It's less about the tonnage and more about pure speed imo: the difference between 65kph and 90kph is remarkable. esp. if you're running small lasers, you need that speed to get into range when you want to. I run 9MLs in my 4p though, I prefer the range and high alpha.

[Valder]

Vermaxx, on 08 November 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Don't take FF armor, it saves 12% weight and doubles your armor costs. It's not worth it. Endosteel is good, saves more weight and doesn't really raise repair costs.

Endo Steel only gives you back %5 of the mech's weight. FF makes your armor %12 lighter, so you can either add %12 more armor for free, or use the weight that gets freed up for something else when you change over. And the repair cost isn't terrible with it. It really depends on the weight of mech and amount of armor which is better. I haven't played with ES and FF with a Hunch yet, so I can't say which would help you more in this case.

Edit: and while my browser was idle and I was typing this, Hauser answered most everything you'd want to know about upgrades.

Edited by Valder, 08 November 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[Agent of Change]

Hunchie + XL = dead

I do not pilot hunchies but i do kill them. I have nothing against hunchies or their pilots but they have this big beautiful priority target on their right torso (the eponymous hunch). Any decent player is going to target your right torso before anything else given the chance. This is largely because:

• It generally has the majority/nastiest weapon(s) in it
  
• It cannot have as much armor as the CT (if CT is maxed)
  
• It's easy to hit

If you throw an XL in there you are basically giving a kill to anyone doing what they should do against a hunch and giving up the opportunity to zombie. Personally i would not recommend it.

[RatMortar]

Well, thanks for the advice guys, I'm gonna wait until I can afford double heat sinks and then compare that to endo-steel to see which will weight less.

Just one more question, does it matter where you place heat sinks? If I take the sinks off my legs, will walking generate more heat, will putting heat sinks on enery weapon hardpoints reduce heat generate by them?

[Zphyr]

RatMortar, on 08 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Just one more question, does it matter where you place heat sinks? If I take the sinks off my legs, will walking generate more heat, will putting heat sinks on enery weapon hardpoints reduce heat generate by them?

Seems like HS will dissipate heat faster when placed in the legs and walking on water, and not when near the weapons... so just keep them there.

Ah btw... also agree that it's wiser to just use the standard engine, unless having the XL is a must for your build and gameplay style. Tried out both and, while losing most of our weapons make us kind of useless, we can still support the team with:
- AMS,
- extra mini-damage from that SL in the head,
- capping and defending cap,
- annoying the enemies and make them chase/shoot you instead of your fighting teammates,
- scouting and designating targets,
- etc etc etc..

Edited by Zphyr, 08 November 2012 - 01:35 PM.

[3rdworld]

Valder, on 08 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Endo Steel only gives you back %5 of the mech's weight. FF makes your armor %12 lighter, so you can either add %12 more armor for free, or use the weight that gets freed up for something else when you change over. And the repair cost isn't terrible with it. It really depends on the weight of mech and amount of armor which is better. I haven't played with ES and FF with a Hunch yet, so I can't say which would help you more in this case.

Edit: and while my browser was idle and I was typing this, Hauser answered most everything you'd want to know about upgrades.

It doesn't matter what mech or how much armor it has. ES is always a better benefit. Always. Never ever put FF on your mech unless it already has ES.

[Valder]

RatMortar, on 08 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Well, thanks for the advice guys, I'm gonna wait until I can afford double heat sinks and then compare that to endo-steel to see which will weight less.

Just one more question, does it matter where you place heat sinks? If I take the sinks off my legs, will walking generate more heat, will putting heat sinks on enery weapon hardpoints reduce heat generate by them?

Double heatsinks take up 3 criticals, so they wont fit in the legs, head, or CT if you're using an engine that doesn't have extra heatsink slots (270 and lower do not have extra slots I think).

Saving weight by switching to DHS depends on how many heatsinks you need to keep your mech cool. If you're using 14 heatsinks right now, then yes, switching to DHS would save you 4 tons, because it would only take the 10 engine heatsinks to keep the mech equally cool. If you're using 12 and it's running cool already, I'd probably go for Endo Steel to get the extra half ton it would give you.

3rdworld, on 08 November 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

It doesn't matter what mech or how much armor it has. ES is always a better benefit. Always. Never ever put FF on your mech unless it already has ES.

If you're using the upgrade to install more armor, how would %5 more weight benefit you more than %12 lighter armor?

Edit: Nevermind, you're right. 2.5 tons more armor is 80 pts of armor. 12% increase on Hunchback with 320 armor would only give it 38 more points.

Edited by Valder, 08 November 2012 - 01:52 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Not a fan of the XL in a Hunchback. Like the OP said, people aim for that side torso. I think it would leave you too vulnerable.

[RatMortar]

Yeah, I pretty much abandoned XL the second you guys mentioned that I'd have to get rid of the AC20.

[aspect]

Yeah i bought an XL for my hunchback, played about 6 matches and then took it out. The hunchback is a mech that tends to use up all it's crit slots and I'd rather have the extra 2 DHS, as well as not getting killed all the time when I lose my side torso.

[3rdworld]

Valder, on 08 November 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

If you're using the upgrade to install more armor, how would %5 more weight benefit you more than %12 lighter armor?

Because it does not give you more armor. It is just light, so if you want, you could put in more armor or weapons, whatever you choose. However there are still max values of armor, equipping FF does not change these values.

Max armor on a hunch is 338. At stock that much armor = 10.5625 tons with FF it =9.3888 a max savings of 1.1737 tons. Quite a bit behind the 2.5 tons of ES. If you want an upgrade to put on more armor you are still better with ES than FF. Always.

Edited by 3rdworld, 08 November 2012 - 01:47 PM.

[Mr 144]

Rathe, on 08 November 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

It's less about the tonnage and more about pure speed imo: the difference between 65kph and 90kph is remarkable. esp. if you're running small lasers, you need that speed to get into range when you want to. I run 9MLs in my 4p though, I prefer the range and high alpha.

^This^

The choice on an HBK is speed vs survivability, where firepower essentially remains the same. A standard 200 to an XL250 is basically a perfect swap on most builds tonnage wise (2 extra engine HS) so the onlt thing that changes is speed, not tonnage. The jump from 64kph to 81kph is hard to resist.

I've run my 4SPs with both Std.200's and XL250's and honestly don't really notice a major survivability difference. The jump in speed, for me at least, means I can position faster, out-circle Cat's and keep up with Dragons in a brawl. This ads survivability to some playstyle and tasks. Of course, I'm not slighting the downsides either, it's really an all-or-nothing banzai approach with the XL. One minute you're uber-awesomesauce...the next yer dead. Damage on a 4SP is not as Hump-Centric as the other variants obviously as well.

Personal choice...I like running both in an either/or hot-swap style.

Mr 144

[RatMortar]

Instead of making a new thread, I'd like to addres something else on here if I may.

I was browsing the list of mechs and I checked out the DRG-5N.

Now if I were to outfit it with the same loadout as my hunchback, I could also change out the standard 300 for an XL and boost the armor. I'd end up with a faster mech with the same weapons and heavier armor.

Not to mention I could later switch to endo-steel to reduce the weight even further.

But the biggest difference of all I find is that without that giant target sitting on my shoulder, I have much less chance of losing the AC20 right?

Has anyone ever used this model and if so, can you tell me if this would work or am I missing something?

Edited by RatMortar, 08 November 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Galland]

On paper this might work with a Hunchback-4G:
-Upgrade to Endo Steel.
-Upgrade to 10 Double Heat Sinks from 13 Single Heat Sinks.
-Upgrade Engine to a Standard 250.
-Add CASE to the Left Torso to protect your ammo.

Now your Hunchback is up to 33% faster and less prone to ammo explosions.

[RatMortar]

Galland, on 08 November 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

On paper this might work with a Hunchback-4G:
-Upgrade to Endo Steel.
-Upgrade to 10 Double Heat Sinks from 13 Single Heat Sinks.
-Upgrade Engine to a Standard 250.
-Add CASE to the Left Torso to protect your ammo.

Now your Hunchback is up to 33% faster and less prone to ammo explosions.

I currently maxed out at 336 armor and I have a 195 engine. As mentioned, I'm not switching to XL to reduce weight further so I can put a heavier engine without sacrificing heatsinks.

Dragon seems to fix most of these issues, people won't target my torsa as much since the AC20 will be on the arm, and even if they do it has higher max armor than the hunchback so less chance or going down.

I just need to remove the lrm10 and ultra ac5 and put an AC20 in its place + 1 extra medium laser.

I'll wait and see if the DHS makes the weight good enough to add a 250 engine but if not I may just switch to the Dragon altogether.

[Valder]

RatMortar, on 08 November 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Instead of making a new thread, I'd like to addres something else on here if I may.

I was browsing the list of mechs and I checked out the DRG-5N.

Now if I were to outfit it with the same loadout as my hunchback, I could also change out the standard 300 for an XL and boost the armor. I'd end up with a faster mech with the same weapons and heavier armor.

Not to mention I could later switch to endo-steel to reduce the weight even further.

But the biggest difference of all I find is that without that giant target sitting on my shoulder, I have much less chance of losing the AC20 right?

Has anyone ever used this model and if so, can you tell me if this would work or am I missing something?

I only run my Dragons with an XL, the center torso is where you will always get cored, because it's massive compared to the sides... the inverse of the Hunchback. You can also make the ballistics arm hold 40 points of armor, which is more than the Hunchback's hunch at max, plus it's harder to hit. Then you can add endo to lower weight and DHS to add more efficiency and lower weight.

I currently have used the Dragon almost exclusively for 200 rounds in a row, but with 3x AC2's instead of the AC20. Everything you're saying checks out with my experience. I used to try this build with the Hunchback, but the hunch got shot off so often it was pointless to invest all the weapons there, swapping my build to the dragon frame solved this, plus I was able to become heavier armored and have a better check on heat.

[RatMortar]

Valder, on 08 November 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

I only run my Dragons with an XL, the center torso is where you will always get cored, because it's massive compared to the sides... the inverse of the Hunchback. You can also make the ballistics arm hold 40 points of armor, which is more than the Hunchback's hunch at max, plus it's harder to hit. Then you can add endo to lower weight and DHS to add more efficiency and lower weight.

I currently have used the Dragon almost exclusively for 200 rounds in a row, but with 3x AC2's instead of the AC20. Everything you're saying checks out with my experience. I used to try this build with the Hunchback, but the hunch got shot off so often it was pointless to invest all the weapons there, swapping my build to the dragon frame solved this, plus I was able to become heavier armored and have a better check on heat.

Sweet dude! Now I'm stoked about getting it so I can put this plan into action. Any problems or risks I should know about?