73 replies to this topic

[Dhread Danite]

When they started jamming I dumped them as the method of unjamming them is too much to do in the heat of battle. An easier method needs to be impemented

[Vermaxx]

Zerbob, on 16 November 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

When the weapon jams, it is done. Think on something for a minute, how do you physically unjam a weapon that you can't reach and does not have a built in unjamming mechanism?

Because the gun has to be useful in MWO, or it will just get ignored. I agree with you from a canon perspective, but the gun is one ton heavier and ammo is more expensive. The rate of fire is not significantly higher than a regular AC5. If the gun has even a CHANCE to permanently seize up in battle, I won't carry it. Many other people feel the same way.

The gun has to have a jam chance, and it must have a way to unjam. It should also have a mode or a default fire system where it will never fire beyond the standard rate. Either your toggle or my double click is sufficient.

The Dance Dance Revolution thing we have right now is insane. Set the thing to have a fixed, or variable timer to unjam (something between half a second and 3 maybe for luls), and be done with it. For the weapon to be truly fair, the unjam timer needs to be the same fixed period for everyone. It should not be a keyboard command set that can be macro'd. The people who use them heavily now already have macros to fire the gun and clear the groups every time, so it never locks up.

[Vagabond Nomad]

Zerbob, on 16 November 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

The weapon should have a jamming chance. The Ultra AC/5 is an advanced piece of tech and as such is difficult to maintain, and use. The complicated mechanism should have a chance to jam both from a canon standpoint, as well as a balancing.
I would like to see rules similar to TT. Jamming chance of 2.8%, but being able to toggle between Ultra and Normal mode. When firing in Normal mode it behaves just like a normal AC/5. In Ultra Mode it would behave as it does now, with the jamming chance.
When the weapon jams, it is done. Think on something for a minute, how do you physically unjam a weapon that you can't reach and does not have a built in unjamming mechanism?

Sorry, but permanently jamming the UAC5 is both re-tarded and wholly disproportionate to any benefit that one might get from a double-shot. I can guarantee you that if it were made to permanently jam, NOBDOY would use it as the penalty would be too high.

Again, to the birds with the table top rules.

As has been repeatedly said, thousands of years in the future, I'm fairly certain they'd have figured out how to create a cannon that doesn't jam when fired rapidly. AND, as has been repeatedly said, TO BALANCE IT, make it generate more heat, more quickly. AND make the weapon more expensive to purchase and repair. How are those NOT balancing factors against the normal AC5?

If the idea to balance weapons is to permanently disable them, they why stop with autocannons? How about a chance for a missile bay's door to jam permanently closed? Or for a laser to overheat too much and blow a capacitor, permanently disabling it? All this ridiculous talk of jamming MAKES NO SENSE.

The ONLY reason I keep hearing to advocate the UAC5 jamming is (all together now) ... because it's in the table top rules (baaaaarf). I don't hear anyone else clamoring for other weapons to jam. Why? Same reason as above ... because it's not in the table top rules (raaaaaaaaaalph). And because it's stupid.

I honestly couldn't care less what's in the table top rules. They should just be a guide, not unbreakable constraints on how the game should be done.

Jamming the weapon is just a lazy answer to making meaningful decisions on weapon balancing.

Edited by Vagabond Nomad, 16 November 2012 - 07:59 AM.

[SmackZ]

I understand throwing in the jamming sys but @ the rate it is currently jamming its all but useless, and the action to clear the jam....well who thought that one up? If they preformed this bad no military or gov org would have ever made em, let alone used them in battle. JMHO

[DivineEvil]

Zerbob, on 16 November 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

The weapon should have a jamming chance. The Ultra AC/5 is an advanced piece of tech and as such is difficult to maintain, and use. The complicated mechanism should have a chance to jam both from a canon standpoint, as well as a balancing.

I would like to see rules similar to TT. Jamming chance of 2.8%, but being able to toggle between Ultra and Normal mode. When firing in Normal mode it behaves just like a normal AC/5. In Ultra Mode it would behave as it does now, with the jamming chance.

When the weapon jams, it is done. Think on something for a minute, how do you physically unjam a weapon that you can't reach and does not have a built in unjamming mechanism?

IMHO, it just should not jam at all. None of other AC weapons are jamming, neither any other balistic or energy weapon. As I can see, right now nobody uses UAC5 due to it's unreliability, but Trial-runners. Jamming as of now forcing you to leave the combat, even if you're skilled to unjam it in several seconds. My solutions are:
- Make the way to shoot it without jamming. As example, proper timing between first and second shot must negate the jamming, and the less accurate that timing it, the more chance for jam there is. The cahnce of jamming on your first-out-of-two shot must have jamming chance equal to zero.
- Remove manual unjam whatsoever. Make jamming to take 2x time to reload, lose the jammed round and make UAC to suffer structurual damage until it will tkae itself out of order, but reduce jamming chance to 5%.

UAC is indeed a high-tech, and that's why it should not jam at all. Jamming is completely relies on rate of fire and even 20th age 800-1000 rpm Vulcan miniguns can shoot without jamming in standard conditions for several minutes. Why the hell 30th age AC, with only ~55rpm, free of dirt and water, has jamming chance 10% is beyond my understanding of objective reality.

Edited by DivineEvil, 16 November 2012 - 08:15 AM.

[Sarevos]

Terror Teddy, on 16 November 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

Well, then all we should need is to Fire the weapon, loose a bullet and wait for the guns normal recycling?

kind of... yea

[AlanEsh]

If I had a mech with a UAC5 on it, my Technicians would have been IMMEDIATELY ordered to set the firing rate up to the maximum it would sustain without jamming. Ever. Period.

Double shots can get bent if they're going to put me in a situation where I have:
a ) no more weapon
b ) to take time to unjam them manually

Stupid mechanic.

[DivineEvil]

Angelicon, on 16 November 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

If I had a mech with a UAC5 on it, my Technicians would have been IMMEDIATELY ordered to set the firing rate up to the maximum it would sustain without jamming. Ever. Period.

Double shots can get bent if they're going to put me in a situation where I have:
a ) no more weapon
b ) to take time to unjam them manually

Stupid mechanic.

Yeah. In our current terms, UAC has half the rate of fire due to jamming, and you have to unjam it fast to produce even so much. Before it jams again on the next shot...

Edited by DivineEvil, 16 November 2012 - 08:37 AM.

[nitra]

I had 3 of these jam on me at the same time . i couldnt beleive i had to cycle the entire row of each column to unjam em .

3PV

Edited by nitra, 16 November 2012 - 11:00 AM.

[Jacmac]

Basically I don't care how often the UAC5 jams as much as I don't want the unjam mechanism to be anything more than waiting out a time period. If they put the jam chance at 1 in 10, with a 5 second unjam time, it would be better than the current silly system.

[AlanEsh]

If they are going to jam on double-shot, I want a toggle to just turn off double shot so I can just mash the fire button without having to feather it to prevent jams.

[Budor]

Broceratops, on 13 November 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

i'd rather have the jam give it a cooldown of 10 secs or something instead of having to unjam it

This would be the best solution imo. Get a cooldown on jams.

[Galland]

I think we need a couple of changes to the UAC5 jamming mechanic:

1. Allow for toggling single-fire or double-fire. Absolutely 0% chance of jamming when in single-fire mode.
2. When you do jam in double-fire, make it take twice as long to cycle and you lose the jammed shell.

This might also sound crazy, but can a Gears Of War-style "active reload" mechanic be put in place for people who want to quickly unjam the UAC? The timing will be randomized as to when to press the unjam button so that you can't put it in a macro or something. If you're successful, you unjam faster than the 2x the time of the automatic unjam, and if you don't you just doubled that unjam time to 4x.

[Glory in the Highest]

Random is never good in a skill based game, IMO.

So instead of a % chance to jam, I would prefer a skill-based thing like RACs had in MW4 - a point at which, if you lay on the trigger too much, it will jam at a predictable time. This way, skilled and aware pilots can avoid jamming.

[ollo]

Eshek, on 09 November 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Probability of jamming in a match, assuming you carry 60 shots, double fire every time, and use all your ammo:

Current rate (10% to jam): 95.8%
TT rate (1/36 to jam): 57%
1% to jam: 26%

I think the tabletop rate would be about right. At 1%, however, the AC/5 would be utterly, irrepairably obsolete, and anyone who could pack an UAC/5 would do so.

I don't think so, 1% still means, that in average every 100th shot will jam the weapon. As you calculated, and i'll assume you did it right, in every 4th game the weapon will jam, and maybe on the 1st shot - in average after half of the shots i presume? I carry at least around 25 AC20 ammo, so for me it would mean 100 UAC5 ammo to do the same damage, likely more because you got more tons left switching the hunch from 20 to 5. I'd strongly consider using a standard AC5 in this case, as i have guaranteed ammo/shots for a specific time, whereas i have an unknown amount of ammo/shots for the UAC5. That is not considering destroyed weapons and assuming UAC always fires UAC mode...

But anyways, i'd personally favor a button to switch between normal and ultra fire, and an increasing propability to jam the longer you fire ultra (displayed as some kind of weapon heat bar). This takes dice rolls out of the game, and this is almost always a good decision.

[Trauglodyte]

The jamming system is fine. Its the faster cool down compared to the regular AC/5 and the jacked up system that you have to go through to unjam it. It isn't exactly fluid or user friendly, especially when you're dodging fire.

[Sarevos]

Angelicon, on 16 November 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

If I had a mech with a UAC5 on it, my Technicians would have been IMMEDIATELY ordered to set the firing rate up to the maximum it would sustain without jamming. Ever. Period.

Double shots can get bent if they're going to put me in a situation where I have:
a ) no more weapon
b ) to take time to unjam them manually

Stupid mechanic.

the same could be said about any device ever... everything screws up... failure is a law not a chance nothing does nor will ever work at 100% efficiency

[Grokmoo]

I strongly dislike the idea of things happening completely at random, with no control by the user. I think a far better system would be along the lines of what is in Living Legends: an overheat bar that you need to be careful not to fill by firing too quickly. As long as you keep the bar below a certain threshold, you can continue to fire. If you go over threshold, then the weapon jams / overheats for a certain length of time.

This could be balanced to make the UAC/5 somewhat better than the AC/5 while not overpowered. Basically, allow the UAC some additional burst damage potential for a short while, after which you pretty much need to drop to the normal AC/5 firing rate.

[GatorG]

Obviously the unjamming is a balance thing, but due to the ability to use a macro it should just be set at a specific time.
When you equip a UAC5 it could be set in the weapon list as 2 weapons:
UAC5 single
UAC5 sustained
this would allow you to place it on 2 different triggers and have full control on the rof.

[River Walker]

I don't use it at all now because you need to do key bored kungfu to unjam it. If you are in a fight and only get off 3 rounds that mean the ammo is now a bomb because the other guy know you are jam-up and he looking for that ammo to blow you up.
So No I think the UAC 5 is Crap right now in game play.