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Question regarding two systems being planned for the game


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#1 Long Draw

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:11 PM

*edit* Are either of these going to be included in the game since they fit the time period?

Happy?*/edit*

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Null Signature System


From BattleTechWiki

The finest achievement in stealth systems developed in 2630 by the original Star League, the Null Signature System is capable of shielding a BattleMech's presence from all but visual detection.


First appearing on the SLDF's EXT-4D Exterminator and the later Spector, while the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield masked their visual presence, the Null Signature System cloaked their heat output and electronic emissions. While the system is engaged, the 'Mech is more difficult to track at anything other than short range, with the Beagle Active Probe and its unbranded Clan equivalent unable to locate a hidden unit with its null signature system engaged. Only the modern and experimental Bloodhound Active Probe can penetrate the null signature masking.
Like many pieces of advanced technology, the Null Signature System and the 'Mechs that carried it became LosTech during the malestrom of the early Succession Wars. Outside of the Word of Blake, all modern examples of the Null Signature System in the Inner Sphere are either experimental prototypes such as that carried by the Werewolf or exceedingly rare surviving examples from the original Star League, with the Capellan Confederation the Successor State closest to recreating the system. While not yet able to produce a bolt for bolt, circuit for circuit replication, with typical Capellan ingenuity House Liao has developed a stop-gap solution suitable for mass-production, the so-called Stealth Armor. Integrating the heat baffles and required components directly into specially designed armor plating, when linked with a Guardian ECM Suite Stealth Armor replicates its benefits (and disadvantages).
While the Clans retained the peak of the Terran Hegemony's military technology, the tenets of Clan honor find such stealth systems dishonorable and ceased research and production of the Null Signature System.


The null signature system features heat baffles that mask the 'Mech's heat sinks and reduce its infrared signature. However, the baffles restrict the normal venting of heat, meaning the 'Mech generates an additional 10 points of heat while the system is active. The null signature system also incorporates a phased-array sensor system and a sheathed directional communication beacon. Therefore, a 'Mech with this system may not mount any special Targeting and Tracking Systems (including Targeting Computers, C3 equipment, and C3i equipment) or a Satellite Uplink system.
The null signature system does not weigh a significant amount, but does take up one critical slot in each of the BattleMech'* *** locations except for the head, for a total of seven critical slots. A critical hit to any of these slots will disable the entire system.

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Chameleon Light Polarization Shield


From BattleTechWiki

The Chameleon Light Polarization Shield is a BattleMech stealth system developed by the Terran Hegemony in 2630 alongside the Null Signature System.

The Chameleon system was designed to make a 'Mech invisible to the naked eye. By using a primitive mimetic system, the outline of the 'Mech carrying it was broken up, blending into the surrounding terrain. The Chameleon was very effective because unlike the Null Signature System it worked against sensor systems and visual observation.

As one of the key technology advances of the Terran Hegemony and Star League, the Chameleon LPS was jealously guarded. It was never deployed in large numbers, appearing only on one variant of the Exterminator used by the Star League Defense Force Royal Divisions. (The Chameleon may have been installed on one or more versions of the Spector, or retrofitted into 'Mechs used by the SLDF [color="#ba0000"]Special Armed Services[/color] units however.) ComStar used the few Chameleon LPS systems they had to develop the Mimetic Armor used by the Purifier Adaptive battle suit. Later, the Word of Blake would use the technology of the Chameleon LPS, Null Signature System, and Stealth Armor to develop their Void Signature System.
Though several Exterminators equipped with the CLPS were a part of the Exodus, the Clans saw it as a dishonorable tool used by inferior warriors and mothballed it.
The Chameleon Light Polarization Shield can only be mounted in BattleMechs. It doesn't weigh a great deal but is bulky, taking up six critical slots. The CPLS can be integrated into the chassis of an OmniMech, but cannot be pod-mounted. When activated, it generates 6 points of heat. It also makes the 'Mech harder to hit: At Medium range an attacker gets a +1 to hit penalty while Long range attacks get a +2 to hit penalty. As it was designed at the same time as the Null Signature System the CLPS can be used in conjunction with the Null Signature System. (In this case all bonuses and penalties stack together.)


As the precursor technology to Stealth Armor and Void Signature System, the Chameleon LPS uses a completely different design philosophy and mechanism that is incompatible with those systems. (The primary difference is that the CLPS doesn't require a Guardian ECM suite to function.) Therefore units mounting a CLPS cannot be used in conjunction with Stealth Armor or a Void Signature System.

Edited by Long Draw, 17 April 2012 - 08:50 PM.


#2 Ghost

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:13 PM

Is there... a question here?

#3 Belial

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:21 PM

View PostGhost, on 17 April 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Is there... a question here?


And I wasn't aware that either was being planned for the game, assuming MWO is the game in question. I did at least get an education on how these systems work since I'd never used them in gaming before.

#4 Vexgrave Lars

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:22 PM

So then.. uh... I'd say in game store..$1000 USD for the Chameleon and the Baffle system a mere $250 USD. That should keep the game payed for, for a bit.

I refuse to refute it, because I think it is canon (says sarna)... but it should be as exceedingly rare, and costly as it can possibly be. One of these would be like finding a 40 Carrot diamond, cut by the hands of Divinci, and mounted in a platinum setting made by aliens.
http://www.sarna.net...ignature_System
http://www.sarna.net...rization_Shield

My thought is if they don't list a price, make something insane up.

#5 Ramien

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:22 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't both of those systems serious Lostech?

#6 Long Draw

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:32 PM

While Ramien raises a good point, I did make certain to include all relevant information from the wiki on these two technologies, which if you read them carefully states that some of this tech was brought along with the group that left the Inner Sphere with General Kerensky. So obviously it wasn't completely gone from existence.

#7 Fameth Sathronaveth

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:34 PM

I don't think that either of these will be seen in the game since they are not quite timeperiod appropriate. All the star league era equipment has been long gone [comstar, cough] and is just being rediscovered [pulse lasers, endo-steel, etc.] In this context, esp. considering that even the clans do not like them, I doubt we will be seeing either of these anytime soon.




Unless Paul is sticking in comstar clandestine raids...

#8 Long Draw

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:47 PM

Actually, if you are familiar with the BT background like you seem to be, then you should know that over the next several hundred years, ComStar and Star League facilities were being rediscovered, which is the very reason why LosTech found its way back on to the battlefield. So, with that in mind, how is this "not quite time period appropriate"?

#9 Karel Spaten

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:43 PM

View PostLong Draw, on 17 April 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

Actually, if you are familiar with the BT background like you seem to be, then you should know that over the next several hundred years, ComStar and Star League facilities were being rediscovered, which is the very reason why LosTech found its way back on to the battlefield. So, with that in mind, how is this "not quite time period appropriate"?

...because it doesn't come back into use until the 3060s.

#10 Ramien

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:20 AM

View PostLong Draw, on 17 April 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

While Ramien raises a good point, I did make certain to include all relevant information from the wiki on these two technologies, which if you read them carefully states that some of this tech was brought along with the group that left the Inner Sphere with General Kerensky. So obviously it wasn't completely gone from existence.

Kerensky and/or the Clans also dropped them into the deepest, darkest, pit they could find, buried them under a mountain of drit, and encased everything in cement for being 'dishonorable' (hyperbole, but only a little). No stealth system seems to have survived to the present, and the introduction of stealth armor in 3063 by the Capellans is the closest modern equivalent (the entry for Stealh Armor in the Tech Manual describes null-signature systems as 'long-lost'. It's also only available to IS mechs - the Clans still won't touch it.

#11 FinnMcKool

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:58 AM

I can see comstar (the DEVs) using this, though Im sure they wont give it to us. It would give them an explanation for Winning battles or resetting the Time line , since things done by the players (us) are bound to change things. and they just couldnt let us do that now ????



Truly it would be cool to, say have battles that only "line of site" or even "good guessing" where you enemy is would be fun.

#12 Infine

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:49 AM

The problem is, though these systems are LosTech, this does not mean they are entirely lost

For we have this very interesting ISN flash: http://mwomercs.com/...-isn-news-flash

#13 Long Draw

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:46 AM

View PostInfine, on 18 April 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

The problem is, though these systems are LosTech, this does not mean they are entirely lost

For we have this very interesting ISN flash: http://mwomercs.com/...-isn-news-flash


This is exactly what I'm talking about! So can we at least get a confirmation from a developer on at least this one piece of tech?

#14 Long Draw

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:13 PM

Just found this small piece of information which would seem to be highly relevant to this topic.
http://www.sarna.net...elm_Memory_Core

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Following the discovery of the Helm Memory Core and the subsequent dissemination of lost Star League knowledge throughout the Inner Sphere in 3028, double heat sinks gradually became a staple of 'Mech construction again and were extensively used in retrofits and new designs. The NAIS had double heat sinks ready for serial production in 3041.

Quote

Q. What year is MechWarrior® Online™ taking place?

A. MechWarrior® Online™ is running an offset timeline of the BattleTech® Universe. As of this writing it is 2011 and the year is 3048 within the game. In 2012, when the game is launched, it will be 3049.


#15 Long Draw

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:36 AM

So can we get a confirmation about either of these two technologies being included in the game either at launch or planned for sometime soon after launch?

#16 Mechteric

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:39 AM

those systems are like dark age to me. that is to say they don't seem to belong in real battletech land

#17 Ramien

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:07 AM

View PostInfine, on 18 April 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

The problem is, though these systems are LosTech, this does not mean they are entirely lost

For we have this very interesting ISN flash: http://mwomercs.com/...-isn-news-flash

The problem with that is the mechs in question are from a star-league cache, not a memory core, so those systems are incredibly rare and irreplaceable if damaged.

#18 Long Draw

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:13 PM

View PostRamien, on 19 April 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

The problem with that is the mechs in question are from a star-league cache, not a memory core, so those systems are incredibly rare and irreplaceable if damaged.

This would have been true before the discovery of the Helm memory core, after which the successor states were once again able to understand the foundations of the technologies that had been LosTech for so long.

#19 Ramien

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:01 PM

View PostLong Draw, on 19 April 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

This would have been true before the discovery of the Helm memory core, after which the successor states were once again able to understand the foundations of the technologies that had been LosTech for so long.

That's assuming the plans for that equipment had been included in the memory core. Given the lack of a 'rediscover' date in the core rulebooks for those pieces of equipment, I would assume that the technologies involved, if available, are experimental at best, with the only results being the introduction of Stealth Armor. Note that the entry also explicitly states that null-signature armor was Lostech and no Successor state has been able to recreate it.

#20 Johannes Falkner

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:13 PM

Or they never officially entered production in the first place and were experimental even in the Star League...
Then since they never had an official introduction they would not have an extinction or rediscovery entry.

Edit: Except they apparently did go extinct. Chameleon went extinct in 2790. Null Signature as well. Void signature, a combination of both the CLPS and NSS begins R&D (WoB) in 3060 and enters production (WoB) in 3070.

Edited by Johannes Falkner, 19 April 2012 - 03:19 PM.






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