251 replies to this topic

[Jor Jurgenson]

I tend to agree more with Sybreed and Weiland.

The LRMs simply received too many buffs at the same time and it really threw off the balance of their role and of the mechs that utilized them. I run a hybrid Cat build and was decimating people during that short window of LRM supremecy. That doesn't mean I ran roughshod over the enemy team, but, if they made stupid tactical mistakes anywhere near me, I hurt them badly. Very badly.

That doesn't mean I didn't do so prior to the patch, but, certainly it wasn't nearly as lethal as it was post patch. I liked the pre patch damage. It felt like the lrms actually did decent damage and I felt sufficiently useful on the battlefield. Now they're nerfed so badly that I find them much weaker than before the patch, even with Artemis installed.

They've been far too heavy with the Nerfs and buffs lately, and hopefully they will rebalance it.

The feel of the missles was much more satisfying than pre patch. Their flight times, trajectory, decreased spread, and increased lock made them much more useful. They had a better feel and feedback as oppossed to the lazy floating missle swarm they have returned us to. Now, the lrms just scratch the paint a little. I have spent 300 rounds on lone lights in the open to take them down. I certainly don't think it needs to be two salvos, but, ten full impact launches out of a dual 15 with artemis setup to take down a light? That's not a good solution either.

They had the damage about right with the pre patch (but were way off in feel/function), they had the feel/function right with the recent patch (but were way off in damage), and they don't really have much of anything right with the current hotfix.

It doesn't affect me much in the sense that I will simply refit my mech and still be viable. However, I'm hoping they can fix the metrics on the LRMs so they can return to being useful and fun again.

[Sybreed]

Old LRMs (pre Nov 6th madness) made Short range/long range builds viable. Now, I need to focus Short range (boat SRM) or long range (boat LRMs). I liked how it was before... I could use my AC/10-LRM combo for long range, AC/10-Mlasers for short range and it was surprisingly effective.

This game will turn even more into a min-max fest than it already was I fear.

[Jack Corban]

I have a A1 With 4 LRM 10 and over 1400 Rounds. I Manage to kill an average of 1 Mechs per round for Ammunition costs that will nearly negate my earnings after a Win.

How is this an incentive to play anything that uses LRM's ?

I tell you what happened.

LRM's with Artemis where fine before but people couldn't bear that guided missiles are a threat to them so they QQ'ed and whined and begged and now they are as useless as before if not worse.

Reality check Guided Long Range missiles are dangerous. Have always been and should always be. If i think back to my old BT TT days or even to the old Mechcomander days. My Mechs got annihilated by LRM Batteries. But i guess this isn't BT anyways so **** me right?

Pathetic.

[Johnny Reb]

My only gripe is if this is how lrms are, the rearm costs need to go down substantially!

[Weiland]

Johnny Reb, on 09 November 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

My only gripe is if this is how lrms are, the rearm costs need to go down substantially!

I really don't think PGI listens to anyone but their QA department at this point. I'm losing faith. All of the solid feedback posts here tend to go on for a hot minute before fading off, and then another borked patch follows suit.

[Darius Otsdarva]

I remember when it took 5 tons of LRM ammunition to destroy an Atlas. Those were the days.

Though for reduced effect and damage output, it would be reasonable to assume that they would also lower the overall cost of LRMs per missile. It'd be nice to have the suppression shake be put back in place to have the psychological factor of artillery kick in.

[Kazooal]

150'000 C-Bills only to rearm with 4 LRM launchers (and without any additional costs for damages).

If you win, you can hardly be paid. I you dont, you can't rearm.

And all for.... 300xp max ! 2000 Artemis-missiles almost all on targets made.... 250 damages !

The LRMs are now REALLY too much nerfed !

And what when ECM will add more counter ?

[Lerzpftz]

Sybreed, on 08 November 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Finally, the LRM nerf had an unforeseen side effect of making mixed builds completely unviable. You have to boat LRMs or switch to SRMs. My stock Centurion-A used to deal over 500 damage when I played smart. Even though I used a "balanced" build, I was a big threat on the field. Now, I never get above 250 damage done/match and I have much more trouble getting kills.

Sybreed, on 08 November 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

Old LRMs (pre Nov 6th madness) made Short range/long range builds viable. Now, I need to focus Short range (boat SRM) or long range (boat LRMs). I liked how it was before... I could use my AC/10-LRM combo for long range, AC/10-Mlasers for short range and it was surprisingly effective.

This game will turn even more into a min-max fest than it already was I fear.

If they tune LRM damage from 2 to 1.7 your LRM 10 damage went down from 20 to 17, which is a nerf of one of your weapons by 15% in damage output. If you claim you did about 500 dmg before that patch and now it's more like 250 dmg, doing 50% less overall damage, it can not be because of your one nerfed LRM. ... how could one even thing that was the case and ... oh well ... never mind ...

It does not feel like it's less than intended. My LRMs work just fine.

Edited by Lerzpftz, 09 November 2012 - 12:41 AM.

[Johnny Reb]

Kazooal, on 09 November 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

150'000 C-Bills only to rearm with 4 LRM launchers (and without any additional costs for damages).

If you win, you can hardly be paid. I you dont, you can't rearm.

And all for.... 300xp max ! 2000 Artemis-missiles almost all on targets made.... 250 damages !

The LRMs are now REALLY too much nerfed !

And what when ECM will add more counter ?

Just don't rearm now if the 75% goes away then all missle are gone.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 09 November 2012 - 12:38 AM.

[Araxes]

Weiland, on 08 November 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

LRMs were perfectly fine before the Artemis patch. The combination of Artemis plus the borked flight path ensured wildly powerful LRMs. Now the flight path is actually worse than it was, commonly straight-lining for targets - no indirect fire left in them. Worse, they lowered the damage on top of the flight path nerf and increased the spread.

It's like PGI's patch is the fat man that keeps scurrying back and forth between the ends of a giant see-saw, trying to balance the thing but never managing to do more then end up on one extreme of the spectrum.

Additionally, LRMs are plagued by the one thing that really makes boats a min-max high-cost build - insane ammo pricing. Even before the patches of late, missile boats (boats meaning that the mech was oriented almost exclusively around firing LRMs) paid for their high damage capability with an insane price tag that other non-LRM mechs didn't have.

All of this combined with the fact that a lot of people didn't seem to understand how to handle incoming LRMs (QQ first, learn to play never) meant that LRM boats were scoring lots of kills and wiping the floor with the simpler lot of players.

It's a delicate balance.

Returning LRMs to previous values would be fine, I believe. Before November 6, I was wary of missiles, but they wouldn't rip me apart if I made only a single tactical error. After Nov. 6th, stepping a toe out of line caused the stealth missiles of doom to rip you apart and hand you a silent loss. Today, missiles barely chip the paint off of my Cicada - and, for that matter, it's the same issue with streaks, but I digress.

Suggestion: Return to pre.6th values for LRMs, include Artemis with current spread values. The prices were bad enough for the damage output then, and with Artemis doubling ammo costs now, Pre-6th LRM values definitely balance out. Today, there's no point in using them, especially when an entire team of LRM users can stream LRMs at my Atlas for twenty seconds before they take me down (add a barrage of lasers and cannons for good measure) - it happened today, and that I laughed at.

Once ECM and Probes hit the ground, there will be another wave of balancing required, but I estimate this to be the best resort at the moment.

Posting to agree with this. LRMs are terribly weak now, most mechs just ignore them completely. Artemis has almost no effect for the outrageous ammo cost. Pre Nov 6th damage with post-hotfix spread (and slightly cheaper ammo) seems like the sweet spot. Really hope this gets looked at.

[Ultrabeast]

First comes all the "Nerf LRM's or I quit" threads, now comes the "Buff LRM's or I quit" threads. Anyone seeing a pattern here? Reminds me of closed beta.

[Weiland]

Ultrabeast, on 09 November 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

First comes all the "Nerf LRM's or I quit" threads, now comes the "Buff LRM's or I quit" threads. Anyone seeing a pattern here? Reminds me of closed beta.

No. It's an "You idiots keep doing LRMs wrong - quit with the stupid all-or-nothing mentality and learn to balance without borking it every single f*cking time" thread. No one is QQing or threatening to quit. Solid posts here.

[Khobai]

The whining about LRMs being overnerfed is not only justified but theres evidence to support it. LRMs do worse dps now than they did in August. And in August they were so bad that hardly anybody used them and they needed to be buffed. So if they were underpowered back then and needed to be buffed, theyre certainly underpowered now that theyre worse. All PGI has done by overnerfing LRMs is taken us in a complete circle... were back to medium lasers and gauss again.

Edited by Khobai, 09 November 2012 - 01:18 AM.

[Ultrabeast]

Khobai, on 09 November 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

The whining about LRMs being overnerfed is not only justified but theres evidence to support it. LRMs do worse dps now than they did in August. And in August they were so bad that nobody used them and they needed to be buffed. So if they were underpowered back then, theyre certainly underpowered now that theyre worse.

There's a simple solution to that:
Use weapons that actually do damage instead of LRM's.

Use mechs with way more LRM's than normal to make up for the loss of damage like 4 LRM20 awesomes, etc.

Use tag/narc/Artemis to make up for the lowered damage

Pack way more LRM ammo on your boats. I used to rolll with 2500 per rack on my DDC.

Edited by Ultrabeast, 09 November 2012 - 01:14 AM.

[Weiland]

Ultrabeast, on 09 November 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

There's a simple solution to that:
Use weapons that actually do damage instead of LRM's.

Use mechs with way more LRM's than normal to make up for the loss of damage like 4 LRM20 awesomes, etc.

Use tag/narc/Artemis to make up for the lowered damage

Pack way more LRM ammo on your boats. I used to rolll with 2500 per rack on my DDC.

That is the [REDACTED] thing I've ever heard. Avoiding entire weapon types, stacking boats, and overloading ammo is YOUR idea of balance? A game build that encourages min-maxing and makes hybrids and balanced builds useless is a good thing to you?

Dude. What the ****. No.

Edited by RAM, 09 November 2012 - 09:32 AM.
Bypassing Profantiy Filter

[Ultrabeast]

Weiland, on 09 November 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

That is the stupidest f*cking thing I've ever heard. Avoiding entire weapon types, stacking boats, and overloading ammo is YOUR idea of balance? A game build that encourages min-maxing and makes hybrids and balanced builds useless is a good thing to you?

Dude. What the ****. No.

You must be one of those guys that has 12 different types of weapons on 1 mech and fires them all at once from 1000 meters away, overheating and doing no damage.

If you want to be bad at the game, that's fine with me. Just don't ask them to change the game to accommodate you.

[Khobai]

Quote

That is the stupidest f*cking thing I've ever heard. Avoiding entire weapon types, stacking boats, and overloading ammo is YOUR idea of balance? A game build that encourages min-maxing and makes hybrids and balanced builds useless is a good thing to you?

Yeah I have to agree. Thats not a solution. Its indicative of the problem.

[30ft SMURF]

Not sure why everyone keeps refering to the after patch missiles as instant kills... I've run an A1 cat missile boat for a long time now. With the artemis system I started doing about twice as much damage as before, but I still had to send out wave after wave of missiles. Wtf do people expect would happen when entire teams start using lrms?!? Thats not an instant kill, thats 8 mechs shooting you. Perhaps you shouldn't rush out into the open? As of the hot fix I do less than half the damage I did before the recent patch. Missiles are f'n broke. Anyone who says they like them as is would rather play brawler mechs and not have to worry about lrms.

[Jason1138]

this LRM thing amounts to another huge buff to lights. i dont know why anyone would drive anything else at this point.

[Weiland]

Ultrabeast, on 09 November 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

You must be one of those guys that has 12 different types of weapons on 1 mech and fires them all at once from 1000 meters away, overheating and doing no damage.

If you want to be bad at the game, that's fine with me. Just don't ask them to change the game to accommodate you.

[REDACTED] Are you actually serious with that comment?

Players should not HAVE to boat in order to play. They should not HAVE to build a min-max mech in order to fight some sort of inane DPS war, and they SURE as sh*t shouldn't have to avoid entire weapon categories just to stay competitive. There is such a thing as a balanced mech build and combining long, medium, and short range in a mech should be just as viable as your overly expensive and power-hungry concept of what makes a good mech.

I'm certain you knew that, but you had to have taken an AC20 round to the face recently and all of the gray matter has not firmly packed back into the vacant cavity that is your dome.

Edited by RAM, 09 November 2012 - 09:36 AM.
Insulting & Trolling