Jump to content

Hmm I Think The Devs May Have Missed Something Important To Balance


25 replies to this topic

#21 Tempered

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts

Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:02 PM

View PostSarevos, on 09 November 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

but why havent they dealt with it then? lol it seems like a very simple math goof up

like honestly its like go take some white out and fix the values problem SOLVED


I think they want to make sure that most of their basic features are actually working correctly before they do a serious weapon and heat balance fix. Every patch they seem to find something that wasn't working as intended. Last patch was the heat from pulse lasers not being added :)

#22 Vapor Trail

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,287 posts
  • LocationNorfolk VA

Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:03 PM

View PostLogicSol, on 09 November 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Edit: also, nearly every heat is broken math thread i see likes to totally ignore, or greatly diminish the importance of range.


I'm fairly certain the reason is that accurately quantifying range as a factor in weapons balance will require the use of calculus.

What I think is that comparing the definite integrals from 0 to 2160 (range of the AC2) of (some variation of) Damage Per Second per Ton mass for a weapon system as a function of range.

∫ DPSpT (Range)

Quick and dirty definition of an integral: Area under a curve, (though I guess these are more "composite lines" than curves, the definition still applies).

Basically the area of the shape each of these colored lines makes with the axes of the graph is its integral. The larger that area, the stronger the weapon, in the given environment.

Posted Image

Common Ballistic Ammo Load is a set time that automatically calculated the weapon's ammo tonnage. It's set at 160 seconds here... thats basically 4 tons for the Gauss. It varies due to the different RoFs of the weapons and shots per ton of the ammo.

Edited by Vapor Trail, 09 November 2012 - 05:09 PM.


#23 Particle Man

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 1,029 posts
  • LocationPhoenix, AZ

Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostSarevos, on 09 November 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

but why havent they dealt with it then? lol it seems like a very simple math goof up

like honestly its like go take some white out and fix the values problem SOLVED


because it doesnt work

#24 Trauglodyte

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,373 posts

Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:43 PM

Well, I think that everyone would agree that running around in a 1st person shooter only getting to fire once every 10s would be completely boring. So, they went about to creating a game in which it simulated the same damage but at different rates of fire. The problem then became heat because they maintained the same damage and heat factors from the TT game but put them at shorter rates of fire. This would have been fine if the heat sinks kept up but they don't. So, you inevetibaly have some weapons creating more heat then they should.

The real kicker, though, is this. Players that played the TT game are still trying to play the TT game but in the current setup of MWO. And it doesn't work. Furthermore, people are fighting their sense of self entitlement within the parameters of the game in teh sense of "If I have a button, I should be able to use the button and not pay for it". Take the 3PPC Awesome, for example. If I remember correctly, and it has been a LONG time since I've used one in the TT game, the 3025 version fired it PPCs in cycles of 3-2-3-2-etc (or was it 3-2-2, 3-2-2, etc?). But, in this game, people want to fire them all and not suffer from the new heat setup. I'm sure that PGI would be more than happy to reduce the damage done by each weapon within the confines of their new rate of fire system and then balance it out. The problem, then, is that people would complain about the AC20 not doing 20 damage and with every other weapon. Simply put, we can't have it both ways.

#25 Hikyuu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 238 posts

Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:59 PM

View PostVapor Trail, on 09 November 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:


I'm fairly certain the reason is that accurately quantifying range as a factor in weapons balance will require the use of calculus.

What I think is that comparing the definite integrals from 0 to 2160 (range of the AC2) of (some variation of) Damage Per Second per Ton mass for a weapon system as a function of range.

∫ DPSpT (Range)

Quick and dirty definition of an integral: Area under a curve, (though I guess these are more "composite lines" than curves, the definition still applies).

Basically the area of the shape each of these colored lines makes with the axes of the graph is its integral. The larger that area, the stronger the weapon, in the given environment.

Posted Image

Common Ballistic Ammo Load is a set time that automatically calculated the weapon's ammo tonnage. It's set at 160 seconds here... thats basically 4 tons for the Gauss. It varies due to the different RoFs of the weapons and shots per ton of the ammo.


I like this but i think it also shows something important about how certain weapons are meant to work.

while the Gauss and AC 20 have the highest areas of damage to range. they are both also meant to be taken as singular entities (or, as a major weapons platform in any case). whereas, the Small and Medium lasers are meant to be paired with eachother or other lasers to compliment their damage loadout as well as main systems like Gauss/AC/LRMs. using seperate groups of lasers also helps mitigate heat (by firing smaller, lower heat lasers while your heat returns). If we think about it that way, we can explain why theres so much variance between Lasers and ACs.

the only weapons on there that are arguable is the PPC, Large Laser and ERPPC, while having solid damage, they don't stack up to the AC or Gauss in damage/range. this is something that is definitely still in the works. Large Laser, LPL, and PPCs are meant to be alternatives to ballistic ammo, at the cost of heat and the trade off in ammunition.

however, even at their damage rates. lets look at the facts of these large laser weapons:

1. they do not consume ammo, therefore they can last in long engagements where ammunition might run out. this also means that they don't need precautionary systems like CASE to maintain safety in the chassis in the case of explosion
2. no cookoff. laser platforms don't need to worry about accidently ammunition dumps that would normally cause you to die (they are however, still able to make the core critical)
3. fast. they travel at the speed of light (except ERPPCs, which i still can't figure out). While Gauss and AC platforms require a Distance over Time, lasers pinpoint instantly. making them easy 'snapshots'.

the downsides to lasers are of course:

1. heat, especially for larger ones, they require a ton of heatsinks to maintain them at a nice optimal temperature.
2. damage, much less than anything above AC10s
3. range, theyre limited by how far the emitters can project light
4. duration. ballistic weapons front load damage, however lasers take time to burn in damage. this is difficult when needing to maintain damage on a target.

#26 Tuku

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Grizzly
  • The Grizzly
  • 529 posts

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:09 PM

Tabletop was the starting point for their rules sets but not the bible that must never bee changed....10 second cool down times is insane....when they made the tabletop they didnt set up the 10 second rule for realisem they set it up to create a fun table top turn based experiance! We are working in a videogame with a real time experiance so there is no need for any arbitrary cool down time minimum for all weapons.





4 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users